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Cuban Doctors Revolt: ‘You Get Tired of Being a Slave’

nytimes.com

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Re: Cuban Doctors Revolt: ‘You Get Tired of Being a Slave’

#171

Post by selectodude »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #170
jules wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you saying communism cannot exist separately from (evil) dictator? History does seem to bear that out.

Around 100 years of history isn't a big sample size when it comes to political/economic ideologies. Also, I would argue their are examples of it existing with non-evil dictators. I won't bother naming anyone specifically as it's easy to say 'but x did y' however I feel like that applies to a majority of world leaders under any system. There are certainly leaders of communist countries who did no-more evil than some o…

What examples can you come up with?

Re: Cuban Doctors Revolt: ‘You Get Tired of Being a Slave’

#172

Post by wooter »

Arcaten wrote: post #154
wooter wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

none of those things have to do with capitalism. those were all acts of government and the antithesis of free enterprise.

In what way, shape, or form does slavery have nothing to do with capitalism? The millions of American Indians that were murdered because they wouldn't give up their valuable land? How is throwing away good food because no one pays for it, and thereby letting poor people starve, not capitalist? How is it the "antithesis of free enterprise"?

Thats a pretty shallow interpretation of history.

To the degree that they did trade peacefully (free enterprise), they flourished - thus the lesson of Thanksgiving. Not to mention they were fleeing religious persecution themselves in North America. Of course establishing private property in a new land was not without friction and abuse. However, the killing of Indians by the Union army were direct actions of Government - not the enlightenment principles of capitalism, free trade & movement, as expounded by the likes of Mises and Adam Smith.

and it was financed by European royalty in South America. How did that go?

The truth is there weren't many options. But I would attribute abuses by violent governments to government, not private enterprise.

Re: Cuban Doctors Revolt: ‘You Get Tired of Being a Slave’

#173

Post by wooter »

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #143
wooter wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

none of those things have to do with capitalism. those were all acts of government and the antithesis of free enterprise.

Almost like how a totalitarian dictator killing his own people has nothing to do with communism?

scoreboard really. name a single capitalist totalitarian dictator? Capitalism implicitly does not incentivize centralization of power. Now name how many successful western countries haven't embraced capitalism as, at the very least, their main source of funds to experiment with.

Re: Cuban Doctors Revolt: ‘You Get Tired of Being a Slave’

#174

Post by frgtpsswrdlame »

BadassFractal wrote: post #106
frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much of that is America's doing? If the embargo were lifted, do you still think Communist Cuba would be failing? Its poverty is a result of America's intolerance for different political systems, not the result of those political systems themselves.

So, communism is great, it's just didn't work that one time because of the US?

I think it's just as likely to work as say capitalist country if the US wasn't biased against it. But it's not just that one time, the US has repeatedly intervened in states which underwent revolucion.

Re: Cuban Doctors Revolt: ‘You Get Tired of Being a Slave’

#175

Post by dang »

BadassFractal wrote: post #93
microcolonel wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Seems weird to come from a country which is explicitly organized around giving everybody a chance to succeed and then upon success saying, yeah but I don't like paying for it. Succeed at what? What success do they gain from being a doctor in a country which prevents them from being rewarded for it? Their returns are fixed by the government, and even when they're working overseas (earning way more money) the governm…

Watch out, this goes against the oh so currently hot narrative that capitalism is bad and the government providing "to each according to his needs" is the silver bullet.

Would you please stop posting unsubstantive comments to HN?

Re: Cuban Doctors Revolt: ‘You Get Tired of Being a Slave’

#176

Post by dang »

duckingtest wrote: post #157
etplayer wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>American medical system is not capitalist but mercantilist. This distinction is made on the fallacious idea that "capitalism" is equal to a totally free market. This is a common confusion but false nevertheless. There is no reason I see why a capitalist system cannot include intervention by the government, and indeed it must deal with this to uphold property rights as even libertarian authors tell us. Capitalism is…

>There is no reason I see why a capitalist system cannot include intervention by the government You're attempting to redefine the meaning of words to create a strawman where 'capitalism' can have any property you want, which then allows you to misrepresent an attack on a $random_negative_thing as an attack on 'capitalism'. A system with state intervening in the market is called a mixed economy. >It has also resulted…

> If you weren't a hypocrite you would renounce your citizenship and relocate to a 'better' place, like Cuba or Venezuela.

This trope is doubly lame on Hacker News: both a personal swipe and a heat-dead cliché. Please don't comment like this here.

Civil and substantive comments are the kind we want on Hacker News. This was neither. Please read and follow https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

Re: Cuban Doctors Revolt: ‘You Get Tired of Being a Slave’

#177

Post by briandear »

adrianN wrote: post #28
jerkstate wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you hit the nail on the head there. In non-communist countries, it is possible to pay off your education debt, and profit from your hard work thereafter. In Cuba, it isn't.

I live in a non-communist country and still got all my education for free. There aren't just two political systems, the American one and dirty communism.

You don’t get anything for free. Your 40%+ taxes give you that “for free.”

I’d rather pay more for school and keep more of my earnings than have “free” school and high taxes forever.

Americans have more disposable income than the countries with “free” university. Student debt is temporary, confiscatory taxes are forever.

Study comp sci in France, graduate and make €40k per year before taxes. Study comp sci in the US, graduate and make $100k but with $80k in debt. What’s the better deal? Remember that $100k also includes health benefits, vacation and all that.

That €40k probably has an effective tax rate of 35% while the $100k likely has Ann effective rate of 20%.

School isn’t “free” — you pay dearly for it.

Re: Cuban Doctors Revolt: ‘You Get Tired of Being a Slave’

#178

Post by briandear »

panarky wrote: post #60
frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #4

You know I can't really feel their plight. Take this: >Hundreds of miles away, in Minas Gerais State, Dr. Jiménez, 34, found the work rewarding, but also began to harbor feelings of resentment. “You are trained in Cuba and our education is free, health care is free, but at what price?” she said. “You wind up paying for it your whole life.” Is that not the point? The communist government allows anybody to attend their…

Earlier this year I visited Cuba and rented a room from cardiologist and his family. He explained that the results of the Cuban system are mixed. On the one hand, literacy and life expectancy are way up since the revolution. On the other hand, cardiologists need to rent rooms to people like me to afford their simple life. He recognized the deficiencies of their system, but he thought they were outweighed by the benef…

But everyone’s life expectancy and literacy is up since the revolution. Comparing 1940 Cuba with 2017 Cuba isn’t even useful, regardless of political system.

Re: Cuban Doctors Revolt: ‘You Get Tired of Being a Slave’

#179

Post by dang »

AutomationTool wrote: post #77
ue_ wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's possible to critique both systems; the American (capitalist) system in which you need to pay huge amounts for education in order to have the mere chance to get a job that's above sustenace wage, the system screwing over especially those who can't afford to pay back debt; the Cuban system in which your training is free of charge but you cannot apply your skills such that you receive above sustenance wage.…

You don't have to pay large amounts of money for education and you don't have to pay large amounts of money to get a decent job. You need to get out of your echo chamber.

Personal swipes like this will get your account banned on HN, so please read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and follow them when commenting here.

Re: Cuban Doctors Revolt: ‘You Get Tired of Being a Slave’

#180

Post by dang »

ue_ wrote: post #82
AutomationTool wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to pay large amounts of money for education and you don't have to pay large amounts of money to get a decent job. You need to get out of your echo chamber.

I'm posting right now on what is by and large a forum hostile to anti-capitalist thinking; this is the very opposite of me being in an echo chamber. Many "decent" jobs require at least a university degree, which almost always entails taking out a loan. So while you don't have to "pay" large amounts of money, you may need to loan it and then pay it back later.

> I'm posting right now on what is by and large a forum hostile to anti-capitalist thinking

A hit! In the same thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15366755. More: https://hn.algolia.com/?query=13110004&sort=byDate&prefix&pa...

Edit: since we asked you to stop using HN primarily for ideological battle and you've been battling up a storm since then, I've banned this account. Because we're serving our capitalist masters, you say? The mask slips, you say? (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13571118) Nope. It's just lame and off-topic.

There's no intellectual curiosity in ideological battle—they are two different games. In one the goal is to learn, in the other to smite enemies. Football and chess don't mix, either, and tackling your opponent's bishop is off topic.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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