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Why Does Sweden Have So Many Startups?

theatlantic.com

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Re: Why Does Sweden Have So Many Startups?

#171

Post by yolio »

Grustaf wrote: post #168
yolio wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's true. But it's also that he Swedish concept of welfare has traditionally included the broader concept of "the welfare state". Meaning that welfare doesn't just apply to social security as such but the availability and quality of housing, education, care, transport and, as you say, even recreational activities. It's not that sport organizations in Sweden are open to everyone out of the goodness of their…

Regarding sports there is nothing stopping anyone from starting an entirely profit driven club, like most gyms for example, as far as I know. I think it's mostly a matter of tradition. And the financial support you get for that type of broadly run organisation, not just sport. But that too speaks to the egalitarian traditions.

What's stopping them is of course that they can't compete with non-profits that are being subsidized by the state. (Which I don't disagree with). Sure, it is a tradition, but like many things it's enabled by the laws on the books.

For instance the school system isn't very egalitarian, at least not in Stockholm, these days (nor is the housing market for that matter). The school system is quite different compared to e.g. Finland. The laws changed and so did the quality of different school. "Grade inflation" is very common etc.

Re: Why Does Sweden Have So Many Startups?

#172

Post by nnq »

xfer wrote: post #170
nnq wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a ton of French influence in software: Symfony, OCaml, lots of Java stuff... But I treat "made in France" like a warning label for anything software, hard to explain exactly why :) I guess it might be because they have very few self-thought people (probably because university is decent and free) that have that "intuition for how to simplify stuff and make it obvious and grok-able" (academic education tends to…

Yes, PHP is a very well-thought language compared to Ocaml, right? Really KISS principle. /s There are lots of incredible good software and research (mostly out of INRIA) from France.

Did I say anything about PHP?! I mentioned Symfony but that's contrary too the point (and a fine example of over-engineering, btw...).

And Ocaml seems cool, though Haskell people see it like "eager Haskell with too many features and complexity and syntax on top". I took a look at the Ocsigen Ocaml web framework long ago though, and I was like "jeeez, wtff"... the language may seem cool, but that thing... ugh... But I can't really have an opinion on that since the only truly functional languages I've really played with were dynamic (Clojure and Erlang), static + functional is not really my area of experience.

Re: Why Does Sweden Have So Many Startups?

#173

Post by Grustaf »

yolio wrote: post #171
Grustaf wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding sports there is nothing stopping anyone from starting an entirely profit driven club, like most gyms for example, as far as I know. I think it's mostly a matter of tradition. And the financial support you get for that type of broadly run organisation, not just sport. But that too speaks to the egalitarian traditions.

What's stopping them is of course that they can't compete with non-profits that are being subsidized by the state. (Which I don't disagree with). Sure, it is a tradition, but like many things it's enabled by the laws on the books. For instance the school system isn't very egalitarian, at least not in Stockholm, these days (nor is the housing market for that matter). The school system is quite different compared to e.…

Ah, but they would be able to compete with the subsidised, volunteer run organisations if there was greater willingness to pay for a more professionally run club, with better facilities etc. This does happen for some sports, such as gyms where there is a market for upscale clubs, but not for football for example, to my knowledge. People would just feel weird about putting their children in a luxury football club.

Every year when it's time to sign the children up for ballet, football, gymnastics etc it's the same thing, extremely high pressure on all clubs, places fill up within hours. I'm sure that if it wasn't for Jante, there would be a huge market for more expensive clubs with shorter queues.

In what sense is the school system not egalitarian? It's not very good anymore, true, but that has other causes. I mean all schools cost the same, i.e. nothing, and anyone can apply to any school. It's even forbidden to charge for school lunch, or even ask children to bring fruits because "some people may not be able to afford that" (though this is going way too far in my opinion).

I agree that housing has changed, and prices are getting pretty crazy in places. But regardless of the price differentials between areas, which still are far from as extreme as in the US, my point is more that it doesn't matter as much which area you live in, your quality of life will be pretty similar. Building standards are extremely high in Sweden so even the cheapest places are pretty robustly made at least. And the houses on the most expensive addresses are still relatively modest, there are no doormen or valets or crazy things like that. The differences are more subtle, and there is less showing off.

Re: Why Does Sweden Have So Many Startups?

#174

Post by peralmq »

victor106 wrote: post #84
Loic wrote: post #69

The most important quote: "Sweden’s impressive start-up record can also be attributed to some broader aspects of how the country is set up. Its social safety net, for instance, helps entrepreneurs feel safe to take risks. In Sweden, university is free, and students can get loans for living expenses, which allows anyone to pursue higher education. Health care is free too, and childcare is heavily subsidized. None of t…

What are some successful startups that are based out of Sweden?

For instance all the companies mentioned in the article ;)

Re: Why Does Sweden Have So Many Startups?

#176

Post by fastbeef »

KGIII wrote: post #135
fastbeef wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you show up drunk or with anger management problems, the company is by law required to provide you with professional help. If that doesn't work, they can fire you and your benefits kick in from day 1.

Are you positive? I checked with Google and I may have the wrong keywords, but I'm not seeing that as a law in the United States. Sadly, I have not just one - but two friends who have lost their jobs for showing up incapacitated. One wasn't alcohol, though. They were stuffed full of amphetamines - but the first one was drunk. Neither mentioned any employer offers of rehab.

Sorry about the confusion, I was talking about Sweden

Re: Why Does Sweden Have So Many Startups?

#177

Post by KGIII »

fastbeef wrote: post #176
KGIII wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you positive? I checked with Google and I may have the wrong keywords, but I'm not seeing that as a law in the United States. Sadly, I have not just one - but two friends who have lost their jobs for showing up incapacitated. One wasn't alcohol, though. They were stuffed full of amphetamines - but the first one was drunk. Neither mentioned any employer offers of rehab.

Sorry about the confusion, I was talking about Sweden

It's all good. Employees don't get nearly as much protection here. I see that as a negative.

Re: Why Does Sweden Have So Many Startups?

#178

Post by bjourne »

yolio wrote: post #169
bjourne wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, that is the backside. I'm a Swede and patriotic enough to like my country, but engineering salaries are abysmal. You don't get rich by working. :) Pay ranges are usually also set by age, so there is little room to improve your salary by being extra competent. Your salary number is off the mark though. Median pre-tax income is roughly double that.

I'm not sure that's true. Sweden regularly feature quite far up on these "highest engineering salaries" lists [0]. I think Swedes have adopted sort of a strange outlook these days. Maybe because of avoiding the financial crisis, or at least thinking they did. People attend university for 5+ years, vacation three times a year, get into huge debt 'buying' an apartment or summer home, get a large brand name car and go o…

Are those numbers reliable? Cross-checking your link with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_... would mean that software developers in Finland and Germany earn a bit less than the median wage. I don't believe that.

Re: Why Does Sweden Have So Many Startups?

#179

Post by xfer »

nnq wrote: post #172
xfer wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, PHP is a very well-thought language compared to Ocaml, right? Really KISS principle. /s There are lots of incredible good software and research (mostly out of INRIA) from France.

Did I say anything about PHP?! I mentioned Symfony but that's contrary too the point (and a fine example of over-engineering, btw...). And Ocaml seems cool, though Haskell people see it like "eager Haskell with too many features and complexity and syntax on top". I took a look at the Ocsigen Ocaml web framework long ago though, and I was like "jeeez, wtff"... the language may seem cool, but that thing ... ugh... But…

Haskell people see Ocaml as a language with too many features and complexity? really? Haskell, a language with a billion extensions? Have you ever tried compiling ghc?

I don't know about ocsigen(i don't do web development), but i guess all web frameworks are more complex than they need to be.

I haven't even mentioned all the formal verification stuff(coq, a verified C compiler, frama-c etc.) that come from inria. I mentioned PHP because the GP was saying languages like PHP that comes from denmark etc., but nothing from France.

Re: Why Does Sweden Have So Many Startups?

#180

Post by nerfhammer »

meowface wrote: post #41
nerfhammer wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

maybe pro-competitive market would be a better intended description

That's still a form of government regulation.

competition is what all the benefits of markets comes from, not non-intervention.
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