Cloudflare Stream – Combines video encoding, global delivery, and player • Hacker News Board

Re: Cloudflare Stream – Combines video encoding, global delivery, and player

#171

Post by throwaway324083 » Wed, Sep 27, 2017, 6:18 PM UTC

lsmarigo wrote: post #134

OzzyB wrote: post #54

If I wanted to create an alternative to YouTube with a conservative bent what are the chances Cloudflare will wake up one morning and shut me down? What if the content is just generally in "bad taste" and not overtly Neo-Nazi, will CF feel the need to play "Content Cop" or are they willing to abide by their role as utility?

I know you guys took major issue with the Cloudlfare takedown of DailyStormer but try to look at the big picture. Mankind has never had a tool as powerful as the internet. The advent of the printing press played a key role in the lead up to the Salem Witch Trials. How big a role the internet played in the mess we find ourselves in today as a country, that's up to future historians to argue, but make no mistake the im…

That's the problem though. Cloudflare did not terminate DailyStormer because of the content. Cloudflare hosts over 40 ISIS related websites, which they continue to do and have not terminated.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/anti-terrorist-hacker-group-re...

Re: Cloudflare Stream – Combines video encoding, global delivery, and player

#172

Post by Meekro » Wed, Sep 27, 2017, 6:19 PM UTC

katastic wrote: post #149

azinman2 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is rediculius. If they took down child porn, would you also have an issue with this? What about a phishing site hosting malware and capturing passwords for the Russian mafia? It seems clear to me you can’t be 100% agnostic to your content. There is a huge gap between “conservative bent” and those trying to actively incite violence in the name of Hitler. And that they’ve only removed ONE such site across…

If you bothered to Google before posting, you'd see more than a single data point. Voat was targeting with a letter writing campaign saying they were a child porn host when they weren't. All the liberals said "if you don't like Reddit, make your own." So someone did. And then liberals DDoS'd it into the ground and had any ISP that dared host them, filled with DMCA and child porn notifications. Instagram, Facebook, an…

I, too, worry about the bigger trend of knocking legal sites offline because someone disapproves of them, but the discussion here is about Cloudflare's trustworthiness. So I'd like to point out that Voat is currently relying on Cloudflare to stay online.

Re: Cloudflare Stream – Combines video encoding, global delivery, and player

#173

Post by grzm » Wed, Sep 27, 2017, 6:22 PM UTC

throwaway324083 wrote: post #171

lsmarigo wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know you guys took major issue with the Cloudlfare takedown of DailyStormer but try to look at the big picture. Mankind has never had a tool as powerful as the internet. The advent of the printing press played a key role in the lead up to the Salem Witch Trials. How big a role the internet played in the mess we find ourselves in today as a country, that's up to future historians to argue, but make no mistake the im…

That's the problem though. Cloudflare did not terminate DailyStormer because of the content. Cloudflare hosts over 40 ISIS related websites, which they continue to do and have not terminated. https://www.theepochtimes.com/anti-terrorist-hacker-group-re...

> There's clearly some undefined standard here, known only in the head of Cloudflare's CEO.

Cloudflare was quite clear on the criteria they used.

> The tipping point for us making this decision was that the team behind Daily Stormer made the claim that we were secretly supporters of their ideology.

https://blog.cloudflare.com/why-we-terminated-daily-stormer/

You can disagree with that criteria, and you can question whether this is the true criteria Cloudflare used. For the later, you need to provide evidence in opposition to this case.

Re: Cloudflare Stream – Combines video encoding, global delivery, and player

#174

Post by throwaway324083 » Wed, Sep 27, 2017, 6:24 PM UTC

azinman2 wrote: post #131

MikusR wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on the mood of their CEO.

I think this is rediculius. If they took down child porn, would you also have an issue with this? What about a phishing site hosting malware and capturing passwords for the Russian mafia? It seems clear to me you can’t be 100% agnostic to your content. There is a huge gap between “conservative bent” and those trying to actively incite violence in the name of Hitler. And that they’ve only removed ONE such site across…

Cloudflare has no issue providing service to phishing sites: https://news.netcraft.com/archives/2013/10/07/phishers-using...

They have no issue providing service to ISIS: https://www.theepochtimes.com/anti-terrorist-hacker-group-re...

The CEO literally said it was because he felt like terminating DailyStormer. Why is it suddenly wrong to repeat his own words?

Instead you make it sound like this is about the content, something cloudflare clearly doesn't have an issue with.

Re: Cloudflare Stream – Combines video encoding, global delivery, and player

#175

Post by OliverJones » Wed, Sep 27, 2017, 6:25 PM UTC

_eht wrote: post #2

I typically find myself off set with every new Cloudflare offering, followed by wondering if they are reaching for a niche outside of DDOS protection. I'm not in a position to explore a need for Cloudflare outside of hiding my origin IP addresses, but for those of you who are, are you actually using and benefiting from the wide array of offerings from Cloudflare? As it stands now, I see these announcements and make a…

I believe DDOS-repelling service is an intended consequence of their global CDN, not its purpose. Its purpose is speeding things up for users.

Re: Cloudflare Stream – Combines video encoding, global delivery, and player

#176

Post by throwaway324083 » Wed, Sep 27, 2017, 6:25 PM UTC

grzm wrote: post #173

throwaway324083 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the problem though. Cloudflare did not terminate DailyStormer because of the content. Cloudflare hosts over 40 ISIS related websites, which they continue to do and have not terminated. https://www.theepochtimes.com/anti-terrorist-hacker-group-re...

> There's clearly some undefined standard here, known only in the head of Cloudflare's CEO. Cloudflare was quite clear on the criteria they used. > The tipping point for us making this decision was that the team behind Daily Stormer made the claim that we were secretly supporters of their ideology. https://blog.cloudflare.com/why-we-terminated-daily-stormer/ You can disagree with that criteria, and you can question w…

ok, fair enough. but the parent to my post said this was about the content.. it's clearly not the content, even that tidbit is clear it's not about the content.

Re: Cloudflare Stream – Combines video encoding, global delivery, and player

#177

Post by nkohari » Wed, Sep 27, 2017, 6:26 PM UTC

KGIII wrote: post #163

always_good wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CloudFlare isn't saying there should be 100x more videos. They're saying that they can make it easy / viable / cheap enough that 100x more self-hosted video providers could exist.

> No, to be clear, if you add up all the companies using all the CDNs you mention you only get to about 1,000 that are doing so at any meaningful and interesting scale. That's a shame. There should be 100x that. That's what we want to enable. Emphasis mine. That's exactly what it looks like to me, more so when I look at it in context with the rest of the comment they made?

> No, to be clear, if you add up all the companies using all the CDNs you mention you only get to about 1,000

It's very clear that he's counting companies using the CDNs to distribute video content. What would the 1,000 figure refer to otherwise?

Re: Cloudflare Stream – Combines video encoding, global delivery, and player

#178

Post by grzm » Wed, Sep 27, 2017, 6:28 PM UTC

throwaway324083 wrote: post #176

grzm wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's clearly some undefined standard here, known only in the head of Cloudflare's CEO. Cloudflare was quite clear on the criteria they used. > The tipping point for us making this decision was that the team behind Daily Stormer made the claim that we were secretly supporters of their ideology. https://blog.cloudflare.com/why-we-terminated-daily-stormer/ You can disagree with that criteria, and you can question w…

ok, fair enough. but the parent to my post said this was about the content.. it's clearly not the content, even that tidbit is clear it's not about the content.

If you're going to weigh in on a contentious issue, particularly if you're going to correct someone, please take the time to do so with some evidence, regardless of what any other poster has commented. You can't control other's comments, but you certainly can control your own. That includes refraining from further muddying the issue.

Re: Cloudflare Stream – Combines video encoding, global delivery, and player

#179

Post by briholt » Wed, Sep 27, 2017, 6:29 PM UTC

OzzyB wrote: post #54

If I wanted to create an alternative to YouTube with a conservative bent what are the chances Cloudflare will wake up one morning and shut me down? What if the content is just generally in "bad taste" and not overtly Neo-Nazi, will CF feel the need to play "Content Cop" or are they willing to abide by their role as utility?

This was exactly my first thought too. "I'd better not make any videos that the CEO will dislike or he'll shutdown my site on a whim and then brag about it."

Re: Cloudflare Stream – Combines video encoding, global delivery, and player

#180

Post by grzm » Wed, Sep 27, 2017, 6:37 PM UTC

throwaway324083 wrote: post #174

azinman2 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is rediculius. If they took down child porn, would you also have an issue with this? What about a phishing site hosting malware and capturing passwords for the Russian mafia? It seems clear to me you can’t be 100% agnostic to your content. There is a huge gap between “conservative bent” and those trying to actively incite violence in the name of Hitler. And that they’ve only removed ONE such site across…

Cloudflare has no issue providing service to phishing sites: https://news.netcraft.com/archives/2013/10/07/phishers-using... They have no issue providing service to ISIS: https://www.theepochtimes.com/anti-terrorist-hacker-group-re... The CEO literally said it was because he felt like terminating DailyStormer. Why is it suddenly wrong to repeat his own words? Instead you make it sound like this is about the content,…

> The CEO literally said it was because he felt like terminating DailyStormer.

Do you have a quote where the CEO says this? Your statement gives the impression that this was nothing more than a whim. As I pointed out below, according to their own statement on the matter, that's not the case:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15350723