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Noam Chomsky Joins Faculty at University of Arizona

uanews.arizona.edu

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Re: Noam Chomsky Joins Faculty at University of Arizona

#171

Post by cgmg »

eighthnate wrote: post #67
em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #5

Chomsky is a great critic of social issues like imperialism, manufactured consent, and state capitalism. However he has been proved devastatingly wrong about Venezuela and as of today won't admit the problems with state socialism. I hope his new students realize this.

> However he has been proved devastatingly wrong about Venezuela and as of today won't admit the problems with state socialism. I hope his new students realize this. Doesn't the problems with state socialism result from being attack by state capitalism which tend to be much stronger nations? The US and europe attacking venezuela and blaming their failures on state socialism is like blaming democracy for ukraine's los…

"The US and europe attacking venezuela..."

Speaking as a Venezuelan, what the bloody hell are you talking about?

"...and blaming their failures on state socialism..."

Venezuela's failures are the failure of state socialism. Price controls, capital controls, expropriations, redistribution policies, central planning, disregard for property rights, and other insane economic policies tanked the country. High oil prices were the only thing hiding the structural damage these policies were creating for years.

Re: Noam Chomsky Joins Faculty at University of Arizona

#172

Post by boomboomsubban »

geezerjay wrote: post #158
boomboomsubban wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or the realization that capitalist Venezuela had a worse version of this same crisis. Why are the socialist policies to blame this time?

> Or the realization that capitalist Venezuela had a worse version of this same crisis. Don't go lecture me about how bad "capitalist Venezuela" was. I have family members living in Venezuela, and not only did they saw their property and livelihood seized by Maduro's thugs, one family member also died due to restrictions imposed on access to basic medical care by your pet socialist utopia.

I'm sorry for your loss.

Maybe worse is overstepping, things under the capitalist government were often fairly rotten as well. Blaming it all on socialism needs more proof than I've seen provided

Re: Noam Chomsky Joins Faculty at University of Arizona

#173

Post by sctb »

ArialAnemone wrote: post #60
shkibb wrote: post #44

Does anybody else find these sorts of discussions to be just fundamentally cringey as hell? On both sides. Stuff like "We agree mainstream black culture is terrible." Like I don't think either would have the guts to say that in front of a black person.

How could it not be terrible? Black america is screwed. The rate of fatherlessness is apocalyptic. Especially when you combine that with the fact that single parent households, with the mother as the parent, produce far more criminals and mentally ill per "family" than households with both parents. Black america is screwed to be a perpetual underclass. imo.

We've banned this account.

Re: Noam Chomsky Joins Faculty at University of Arizona

#174

Post by fatjokes »

abalone wrote: post #145
fatjokes wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, reading his sharp responses you forget his age. Then you see him use dated terms like 'Orientals' and remember :).

You misunderstand. He used the term in the context of referring to 19th century racists. Full quote: "In the 19th century, the US had emigration officials helping drive the native population off their lands, and immigration officials in Europe trying to bring in white settlers to replace them. White. Orientals were entirely excluded."

It is in context, but it's not like he's directly quoting something, so I don't think I misunderstood. E.g., I don't refer to African Americans with the N-word when I'm discussing slavery.

In any case, I don't think anyone is offended by his use of the term here. In fact, AFAIK, it's not even considered that offensive---just a bit dated. I was just making an observation. Not accusing Chomsky of racism or anything.

Re: Noam Chomsky Joins Faculty at University of Arizona

#176

Post by marmaduke »

otalp wrote: post #2

He's 88, still mentally very sharp and probably moved there for the weather(aside from the great department filled with old students). His work ethic is incredible, he spends 5 hours a day responding to emails from the public- I've received a detailed response every time I've sent one. The amount of time he spends engaging with even terribly misinformed(but well meaning) people is truly astounding, and unparalleled a…

It'd be interesting to see those emails publishing as a archive to search through though he's probably used them as fodder for his books.

Re: Noam Chomsky Joins Faculty at University of Arizona

#177

Post by droidist2 »

jtraffic wrote: post #62

I suspect that when Chomsky dies, a burst of new and valuable linguistics research will arrive. I'm not saying I hope he dies soon. However, I think his current impact on the field is probably negative. My theory derives from these sources: https://www.economist.com/news/books-and-arts/21695371-theor... (Chomsky's recent theory of how language evolved has not been accepted favorably), and http://www.nber.org/papers/w…

Even if his work has had a negative impact, why would the field have to wait for him to die to progress?

Re: Noam Chomsky Joins Faculty at University of Arizona

#178

Post by thomasfortes »

epx wrote: post #170
thomasfortes wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you say that young lefties thinks that Brazil was a paradise during a time when a right wing military dictatorship ruled the country, you are stating a fact that simply isn't true, not an opinion. And to be honest, a lot of young right wingers are the ones that miss the dictatorship and say that the country was better in that time, in which case what you said couldn't be more distant from the reality.

This is a nostalgic credo among youngsters that are too far into either side of political spectrum: that there was some sort of 'order' or 'grand plan' for the country until the 1980s. Obviously I don't subscribe to that credo. Let's not forget that local left worships Getúlio Vargas, which was a right-wing dictator and a full-fledged fascist (a true fascist that fortunately was not a Nazi puppet, which made a lot of…

> This is a nostalgic credo among youngsters that are too far into either side of political spectrum: that there was some sort of 'order' or 'grand plan' for the country until the 1980s. Obviously I don't subscribe to that credo.

Source needed, credible sources about lefties that loved our military dictatorship would be greatly appreciated.

I can agree with you on Getulio Vargas, but I disagree in everything else and would love to see you support your arguments with sources.

I call things what they are, and saying that the left has fond memories of the dictatorship in the same way that the right has is a false equivalence.

I won't say that we don't have a few lefties that admire Stalinism and left-wing dictatorships, but I find very hard to believe that the left is fond of our dictatorship, would gladly read some sources that corroborate your arguments.

Re: Noam Chomsky Joins Faculty at University of Arizona

#179

Post by AlexCoventry »

geezerjay wrote: post #49
AlexCoventry wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there some crucial factor in Venezuela's woes which clearly arises from socialism? It seems likely that the US will soon become the latest demonstration that corruption can damage a country with any form of government. Chomsky identifies that as the problem in Venezuela, which I find plausible. https://www.democracynow.org/2017/4/5/chomsky_leftist_latin_...

> Is there some crucial factor in Venezuela's woes which clearly arises from socialism? Ah, the never-ending cycle of socialist revolution, followed by establishing socialism, and finally followed by a string of desperate attempts to pin the effects of socialism because no true socialists would ever do any wrong. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

> no true socialists would ever do any wrong.

That's irrelevant to my question.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Re: Noam Chomsky Joins Faculty at University of Arizona

#180

Post by sn9 »

fatjokes wrote: post #174
abalone wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You misunderstand. He used the term in the context of referring to 19th century racists. Full quote: "In the 19th century, the US had emigration officials helping drive the native population off their lands, and immigration officials in Europe trying to bring in white settlers to replace them. White. Orientals were entirely excluded."

It is in context, but it's not like he's directly quoting something, so I don't think I misunderstood. E.g., I don't refer to African Americans with the N-word when I'm discussing slavery. In any case, I don't think anyone is offended by his use of the term here. In fact, AFAIK, it's not even considered that offensive---just a bit dated. I was just making an observation. Not accusing Chomsky of racism or anything.

It's not unusual to use "Negros" when referring to African-Americans in discussions of the Jim Crow era or slavery.

That might be a more fitting analogy than slurs.

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