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Ask HN: What mistakes in your experience does management keep making?

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Re: Ask HN: What mistakes in your experience does management keep making?

#171

I think management fails when they don't understand that the nerds hired them and not the opposite. We are the technology, we did it in the first place. We hired managers to help us. By default, we know better than them (because we are the one who do the tech), they should listen to us and not the opposite. Now, when everybody knows his place, we can collaborate and do great work. I got the luck to work with great ma…

The tone you use here helps make my point: just because "nerds" are experts in everything tech does NOT equate to good decision making / good management for the company as a whole. Sometimes it does. Often times it does not. Things aren't usually that black and white; "I built it, so I should run it." Just had this convo with a coworker the other day. He was telling me about all the complaints from the dev team and h…

just because "nerds" are experts in everything tech does NOT equate to good decision making / good management for the company as a whole.

You think a programmer's job and abilities stops where they don't. Programmers do understand what the customer want. They ship to customers. I'm not saying programmers don't need help though.

Re: Ask HN: What mistakes in your experience does management keep making?

#172
Massive problem in tech: Valuing easily-quantifiable metrics for productivity over "softer" forms of productivity. Current tech culture reminds me of a random idiot who makes claims like "Xavi wasn't much of a midfielder because he rarely scored goals".

On one small project I was on (6 person team), we had a guy -- we'll call him Carl -- who was right at the bottom of the pile of commits. I mean, maybe 20-30 over the course of a 6 month project. From an earlier collaboration, I happened to know that he was a very good programmer, but he wrote practically zero code for this project. And Carl wasn't that popular with our bull-in-a-china-shop director, who claimed that Carl was dead weight slowing our fast-paced team down. He constantly asked the rest of us what Carl was "contributing".

So, after months of pressure, Carl "left" for a separate team as the project wound down, in spite of our vociferous appeals to management to keep him on. He quit a few months later.

Why were we so desperate to keep him?

Because Carl was the glue that kept the group working so productively. He managed the egos, kept focus on the goal, and fostered respect for everybody on the team. He intervened during technical and interpersonal disputes. He was calm and quiet and rational. During design discussions, when the more outspoken members of the team were trying to ram through their visions of the world (guilty!), he would bring brilliantly insightful and cogent questions about the long-term and medium-term ramifications of said designs. He was an unofficial liaison to our internal customers. He volunteered to break bad news to management when there was a delay, but deferred to other members of the team when it came time to claim credit for our progress.

Carl was, in short, our unofficial PM, and a damn good one. He realized that his social skills were more valuable to the team than his technical skills. But his contributions weren't valued by management because they weren't as visible as our commits. Our team fell apart in a matter of months after he left, as we quickly became overwhelmed by all the stupid shit -- and toxic politics -- he had deftly absorbed and deflected. We wasted two of those last months working on a feature that he had opposed, only for none of our clients to use that feature upon release. Just as he had predicted.

In general, all the things he brought to the table -- humility, empathy, patience, foresight, listening, respect, selflessness -- are the sorts of pro-social traits that tech companies (and especially SV tech companies) aggressively select against, in spite of the fact that they are precisely the kinds of traits that lead, in my experience, to far greater productivity.

The current culture is borderline toxic. In all the talk of "10x" programmers, people seem eager to overlook that a 1x programmer might have a 10x positive impact on their team in other ways.

Re: Ask HN: What mistakes in your experience does management keep making?

#173

I think management fails when they don't understand that the nerds hired them and not the opposite. We are the technology, we did it in the first place. We hired managers to help us. By default, we know better than them (because we are the one who do the tech), they should listen to us and not the opposite. Now, when everybody knows his place, we can collaborate and do great work. I got the luck to work with great ma…

The tone you use here helps make my point: just because "nerds" are experts in everything tech does NOT equate to good decision making / good management for the company as a whole. Sometimes it does. Often times it does not. Things aren't usually that black and white; "I built it, so I should run it." Just had this convo with a coworker the other day. He was telling me about all the complaints from the dev team and h…

On contrary i have also seen management make bad decisions as well. As evidenced by the results.

I often feel evidence is used selectively.

Statement - Programmers are bad business decisions Evidence - Often use single example point that out.

Statement Managers are good at business decisions - Tons of bad decisions over the years - Apparently still good at business decisions?

Re: Ask HN: What mistakes in your experience does management keep making?

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the Nestle example: One of the biggest constraints in a business is employee focus. Theoretically, you want to maximize future free cash flow. Unfortunately, there are many inputs: rev growth, solid roi on capex, lowering non-essential costs, employee retention, unit costs, brand etc. Management teams have to distill the message about what they want in a way that many employees can get behind. Nestle was too focus…

Google uses a hierarchical system for quarterly and annual goals called OKRs (Objectives and Key Results) that tries to align goals for the company, orgs, teams, and individuals. http://www.businessinsider.com/googles-ranking-system-okr-20...

Anyone else using that? We use it at my company with very varying levels of success.

Re: Ask HN: What mistakes in your experience does management keep making?

#175
post #159
post #100

Working for a company building heavy hardware, I see the following happen time and time again: * Reorganizing seemingly for the sake of reorganizing. Result: Every time the new organization has settled somewhat and people know who to interact with to make things flow smoothly, everything is upended and back to square one. * Trying to make our products buzzword compliant without understanding the consequences - we've…

> a man "a person"?

the 'mankind'

Re: Ask HN: What mistakes in your experience does management keep making?

#176
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Importing tech talent, rather than promoting. is often at odds with both the point above and below it. When a company is in rapid growth, there may be a point where the talent they relied on is not quite ready for the promotion they are hiring in for. Without expanding that search outside, you may become stale in the organization, and not provide the right mentorship to ensure that those interested in getting promo…

Except that the usual thing is to pay the new guy more and believe his story that the tech he used at the last gig, that he is now an expert in, is better than how you did it. Now management makes the new expert the boss. Next thing the old guy discovers the new guy was just in the right place at the right time in the last place and is useless, but, because he is the new boss you have to do everything again.

Fair point. That would definitely be a bad scenario as well, but would imho be a different issue from hiring someone from outside all together. A bad hire is a bad hire, and someone who comes in wanting to change everything to fit their way (especially if their way is wrong) is not a good thing. I still don't know if the original point is accurate as a common mistake, and perhaps the bigger issue would be that non-technical people make bad choices when trying to find technical leadership that are the wrong fit?

Re: Ask HN: What mistakes in your experience does management keep making?

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's not team-oriented behaviour. I'm not talking about face-time, but about having the attitude that you're part of a team. The "10x" works 16 hours a day for 3 days and produces a chunk of code that works, does what it's supposed to, ahead of schedule. So far, so awesome. But the rest of the team is working away on the rest of the project. Suddenly they're lumped with a huge chunk of code that they don't understand…

You know that famous inverse square root code? Apple basic? Some things just cannot be pair programmed. They are simply impenetrable to average minds at the time. Your argument sounds like one for a Handicapper General, to be honest. (If missing the reference Google it). You want to handicap everyone actually competent with a slower partner. And before you claim the usual: it is ok to write suboptimal but simple to u…

99.9% of modern software does not require that level of cleverness. Also, the fast inverse square root code is a poor example as it's:

1) A very small amount of code

2) Isolated from everything else

3) Conceptually easy to understand what it's accomplishing (even if the implementation itself is interesting and non-obvious)

Most people would kill for a colleague who wrote code like that.

No, instead what you most often get out of people like the OP is mentioning (because I too have worked with and been burned by them) is some weird pseudo-ORM they wrote from scratch because they don't like how Hibernate handles joins.

Naturally, there's no documentation or even comments because it should be obvious why paxos was poorly implemented in this weird pseudo-ORM framework. And of course, the entire codebase was rewritten overnight to use this new framework as well.

Re: Ask HN: What mistakes in your experience does management keep making?

#178
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they worked in 2-3 day sprints for ridiculous hours, and then stayed home or might as well have. The other points you make might be big problems depending on the situation, but this? What's wrong with someone taking a day off after a burst of productivity? This seems like classic valuing of face-time over results.

it's not team-oriented behaviour. I'm not talking about face-time, but about having the attitude that you're part of a team. The "10x" works 16 hours a day for 3 days and produces a chunk of code that works, does what it's supposed to, ahead of schedule. So far, so awesome. But the rest of the team is working away on the rest of the project. Suddenly they're lumped with a huge chunk of code that they don't understand…

"team-oriented behavior"? So the talented individual gets to write all the code and explain it to other people at the same time?

This is a well known major impediment for creative persons in any field. You can explain things after they are done, not while you are doing them.

This is why average developers create such a drag on productivity. They always want meetings, explanations -- in short, anything that slows down the work horse and make them look productive in the process.

Re: Ask HN: What mistakes in your experience does management keep making?

#179

- Trying to "create a buzz" around the office, asking for a "sense of urgency," and other things that result in an illusion of productivity. - Focusing on fixing problems, rather than preventing problems - Acting as yes-men to bad upper-management strategy, thereby creating a layer of indirection between the people who think it's a good plan vs the engineers who can explain why it's not quite that easy - Trying to us…

Jira management :( I've seen so many "managers" spend all their time staring at Jira instead of talking to their actual team or reading the code. I'm convinced Jira is an anti-pattern for management

Jira has a lot of bad use cases around it, but I don't think it's a bad tool. I rather be looking at the board to get status updates than interrupting someone to see where things are at, and basically resorting to micromanagement. It should however not be used as a replacement to talking to the team or reading the code - but it should be one of the tools in the shed.

Re: Ask HN: What mistakes in your experience does management keep making?

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's not team-oriented behaviour. I'm not talking about face-time, but about having the attitude that you're part of a team. The "10x" works 16 hours a day for 3 days and produces a chunk of code that works, does what it's supposed to, ahead of schedule. So far, so awesome. But the rest of the team is working away on the rest of the project. Suddenly they're lumped with a huge chunk of code that they don't understand…

You know that famous inverse square root code? Apple basic? Some things just cannot be pair programmed. They are simply impenetrable to average minds at the time. Your argument sounds like one for a Handicapper General, to be honest. (If missing the reference Google it). You want to handicap everyone actually competent with a slower partner. And before you claim the usual: it is ok to write suboptimal but simple to u…

Metaphorically speaking, some mountain routes require a very, very good climber to scale. If it is a team that you are trying to get to the top, that amazing lead climber still needs to throw a rope down to the rest of the team.

I do agree that sometimes managers want to fit "chefs" into a McDonald's like cooking process.

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