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Ask HN: Which companies give programmers offices?

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Re: Ask HN: Which companies give programmers offices?

#171

Post by kabdib »

msluyter wrote: post #28

On the general question of open vs. private offices, my views have tempered over time. The first time I worked in an open office, I hated it. But I've come to realize that a lot depends on the layout of the office and that there are better and worse ways to configure one. The first case -- the one I hated -- had a) long rows of desks, b) bright overhead fluorescent lights, c) a lot of noise due to being in a large ro…

I generally hate open offices. I've worked in enough open space / half-height-cubie-space to detest them. In one case I refused a job (well, a transfer) because the other group was basically cheek-to-jowl and in a place with little ventilation (it smelled bad in there); I've done crappy working conditions in startups, but I refuse to do them in a multi-billion dollar corporation.

However, the ability to move your desk at will makes open space work well, assuming you have enough space to work with. If your desk is on wheels and your company lets you, you can just relocate: Find a quieter spot to work, or go sit next to a few people you're working closely with for a while.

But the combination of open offices and assigned seating is terrible. It feels like preschool. I prefer to be treated like an adult at work, not a child or a slave.

Re: Ask HN: Which companies give programmers offices?

#172

Post by RHSeeger »

magic_beans wrote: post #115
bobbytherobot wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm currently in a small office with a small team. They hate talking. They want to do everything by chat or code review. My point? So many factors are at play for a healthy office.

I mean, why is there a need to chat while working? Why not go to the kitchen to chat? Code review seems pointless at a company with a defined code conventions.

Code conventions don't cover good algorithm design, good architecture, common implementation patterns, edge case coverage, etc.

Re: Ask HN: Which companies give programmers offices?

#173

Post by calafrax »

amorphid wrote: post #94
msukmanowsky wrote: post #42

Parse.ly is 100% remote and I've got a pretty sweet home office :)

In the USA... Given real estate prices in tech hubs, who can afford an office space anymore, let alone private offices! I imagine working from home will become the new normal. At least until the FCC allows ISPs to throttle Internet connection speeds so much that ISDN lines start looking attractive. Hopefully they make the phone company maintain those copper phone lines!

this fcc comment is so uninformed. getting rid of net neutrality will make service way better because you will be able to pay for a line with prioritized access for video conferencing and remote presence. net neutrality is what makes it impossible for individuals with a public isp connection to get the same quality as corporations with their own private networks.

Re: Ask HN: Which companies give programmers offices?

#175

Post by nfriedly »

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #162
nfriedly wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, before that, everything was roses. After that, I was initially told that I would be fired if I didn't move on site (I was given a few location choices). I said "no", got a new job lined up, and then about 4 months later, they decided not to fire me (they apparently did let go of some people, I was an exception). I don't recall the exact phrasing, but it was at least hinted that I shouldn't expect a promotion. I…

That's gotta be quite the complement to your value to the company. Not only did they not let you go, but you still got a decent raise later. Even if they hinted that you won't be eligible for promotions (I imagine that decision comes from someone higher than the person allowing you to continue working from home), I'd still be feeling good about myself if I were in your shoes.

Yea, I'm really pretty thankful; I think my teammates and manager really went to bat for me when the whole thing came down. Without their help, IBM almost certainly would have let me go.

It didn't work out so well for a colleague of mine who was on the design team. Despite several other teams within IBM trying to hire him, the company stayed the course and let him go. I don't know the full details, but I do know that he's a world-class web/mobile engineer and we're definitely worse off for loosing him. He's in Pittsburgh, if anyone is looking for someone there (or remote): https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshuabsmith/

Re: Ask HN: Which companies give programmers offices?

#176

Post by hinkley »

mindcrime wrote: post #148
msluyter wrote: post #28

On the general question of open vs. private offices, my views have tempered over time. The first time I worked in an open office, I hated it. But I've come to realize that a lot depends on the layout of the office and that there are better and worse ways to configure one. The first case -- the one I hated -- had a) long rows of desks, b) bright overhead fluorescent lights, c) a lot of noise due to being in a large ro…

a) my desk faces the wall, for fewer visual distractions I'm sitting here feeling stunned that anybody could ever want their desk facing a wall, as the implication (in terms of any "open plan" environment) is that their back is facing, well, nothing. IOW, somebody can walk up behind you unnoticed. Me personally, I hate that with a passion. I'd pay money to have my desk facing out with my back to the wall, just so nob…

There's a reason common convention swag for years included a fish eye mirror with a notch on the back to fit over the corner of your monitor.

Re: Ask HN: Which companies give programmers offices?

#177

Post by djmobley »

bdavisx wrote: post #128
onion2k wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's contribution; it's not supposed to cover the full cost.

If it's your employer, they should be paying for the entire cost of your office.

If you're hired as a remote employee, basing yourself in one of the most expensive cities in the world is your choice, not your employer's.

Re: Ask HN: Which companies give programmers offices?

#178

Post by hinkley »

lordnacho wrote: post #132
msluyter wrote: post #28

On the general question of open vs. private offices, my views have tempered over time. The first time I worked in an open office, I hated it. But I've come to realize that a lot depends on the layout of the office and that there are better and worse ways to configure one. The first case -- the one I hated -- had a) long rows of desks, b) bright overhead fluorescent lights, c) a lot of noise due to being in a large ro…

One thing that matters a lot is the behaviour of the people. I used to work in a small open office where one guy would constantly hold debates with everyone. It was pretty hard to stay out of it, and very distracting. Now I'm in an office with a similar layout and staff, but it's like a library. There's the occasional group discussion or banter, but not enough to bother. I've worked in finance my whole career, so it'…

The only difference between your library and a closed office plan is that the library was cheaper to build.

And all it takes is two chatty hires to ruin it (as a chatty person, I'm fine unless someone encourages me). If they kept a lot of private meeting rooms when they changed the floor plan, you have a good chance of convincing the chatty people to fuck off to a room if they want to talk, but most places don't do that. They use open floor plans to reduce costs, and then there are shortages of meeting space, kitchens, ventilation, and bathrooms.

The sales pitch of sitting in a group is that you can ask people questions and get an answer, but it's based on bad information about recovery periods after task switching. And as a lead I've been crippled by the inability to get candid answers from junior and midlevel engineers, and being unable to negotiate agreements with senior engineers by hashing out our disagreements in private where I can steer the conversation toward addressing their personal concerns instead of general ones. We should be concentrating on finding a compromise or promising more functionality so they're happy, so that it's two or three advocating for an idea when it's time to discuss it as a team. Instead it just gets shit on while I'm stream-of-consciousing it in the middle of a bunch of myopic people, leading to more confirmation bias and reaffirmation of the status quo.

[Edit] And good luck healing a rift between QA and dev if the QA folk have to wander into the lion's den to talk about an issue. I have only been a lead once in an open office plan (working on #2), because half of my skill is in knowing more about what's going on by liaising across functional or personality boundaries. Half of the rest is in fixing unidentified pain points, which often requires hearing from people who don't like to be a bother. Open plans don't encourage candor, they crush it like a bug.

Steve Job's line, as reported by Jonny Ive IIRC, about ideas being fragile and needing space to grow really hit home when I figured out I'm doomed to be in open offices until the pendulum swings back.

Re: Ask HN: Which companies give programmers offices?

#179

Post by dmoy »

thehardsphere wrote: post #38
dmoy wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean I would hope so too, but it appears to be patently not true. Thus the ask HN question, where can one find these mythical offices.

Well, the only place where a non-programmer would treat the idea that programmers should have offices with incredulity would be a place that doesn't value software as its core business. I mean, most "programmers" don't work for software companies; many of them are employed by banks and insurance companies. It's natural for that to be treated weird there.

"the only place where a non-programmer would treat the idea that programmers should have offices with incredulity would be a place that doesn't value software as its core business"

But this is also not true, see e.g. Facebook, Google.

Re: Ask HN: Which companies give programmers offices?

#180

Post by emodendroket »

thehardsphere wrote: post #39
krageon wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can hope that that's the case, but that doesn't mean that it is. In my experience, it is emphatically not the case.

Do you work at a company whose core business is software?

I do, and I've interviewed at several others. Nowhere have I seen private offices.
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