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CEOs Want Their Offices Back

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Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#171

Post by dba7dba »

varelse wrote: post #51
coffeeski wrote: post #8

Why do CEO's think they're alone in the need for quiet spaces where they can focus? Sure some people can work in the noisy space where interruptions abound. The only thing in my office that works well with interruptions is my CPU. I'd rather have a Cube farm, but better yet, a small tiny phone booth as an office.

Just like the cargo cult Agile pandemic peaked a few years ago, I suspect we're reaching peak open floor plans right now. The overall negative effects of an open floor plan for a significant fraction of engineers (though not all) is self-evident and backed up by reams of data stretching back nearly 40 years: http://iansommerville.com/software-engineering-book/web/work... TLDR: 100 square feet of personal space is opt…

Point for teaching me `$h!+`

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#172

Post by varelse »

hotsauceror wrote: post #159
varelse wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HR is driven by data. To kill open floor plans, start citing the floor plan as the primary reason for leaving. If that becomes a theme, IMO open floor plans will become cancer. It just takes time.

Yeah, but by then you, and all the others, have already left. Plus, the costs of a re-remodel can be quite persuasive. Time is on the side of the folks who made the original decision to commit to the open floorplan concept in the first place.

Growing companies are adding new space all the time. That's when to schedule a transition like this.

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#173

Post by kumar785 »

hotsauceror wrote: post #156
varelse wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like the cargo cult Agile pandemic peaked a few years ago, I suspect we're reaching peak open floor plans right now. The overall negative effects of an open floor plan for a significant fraction of engineers (though not all) is self-evident and backed up by reams of data stretching back nearly 40 years: http://iansommerville.com/software-engineering-book/web/work... TLDR: 100 square feet of personal space is opt…

Cargo Cult is exactly right. Our organization is selling us this right now. "We're creating a more collaborative atmosphere! Facebook does it, this must be what IT people want." (Any discussion of paying IT staff like FB, though, is "well, we're not an IT company, and besides we're mission driven!") Because they don't think we're mature enough to accept that they want to squeeze more bodies unto a smaller space, for…

I don't think it is a cargo cult. My guess is that the focus is to make these engineers replaceable. And "quiet, introverted, methodical folks" are difficult to replace. Dumbed down open office workers and brogrammers are easily replaceable with another recent graduate some place cheaper.

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#174

Post by rhizome »

tradesmanhelix wrote: post #166

For over a year, our dev team has been begging management to fix our open-office. It's loud, distracting, and negatively impacts our productivity. The team wants 1/2 height cloth cubicles that would provide a limited measure of privacy and personal space while also helping to dampen the noise. Their response: Buy on-desk semi-transparent plastic partitions that just provide another noise-amplifying hard surface... Th…

Their response: Buy on-desk semi-transparent plastic partitions that just provide another noise-amplifying hard surface...

LOL. "Isn't there some gadget at OfficeMax we can use instead?"

The most bizarre part of these stories is that cheap, used cubicles are as common as tennis shoes.

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#175

Post by QuantumRoar »

rexpop wrote: post #93
atemerev wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the academia, where good communication and idea sharing are essential, there are no open offices. Said communication happens where it ought to be: in rec room or cafeteria.

I thought Academics jealousy hoarded ideas, carefully ensuring that they weren't stolen by competing researchers — especially in the same department.

No. Usually you talk to your colleagues and you help each other -- especially in the same department.

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#176

Post by splintercell »

blhack wrote: post #143
varelse wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you would prefer your coworkers develop RSI symptoms from straining to use a laptop keyboard? Not all of us can use laptops for extended periods of time. Now if I could type with my brain (and I don't mean by smashing my head repeatedly on the keyboard), that's Sam Altman status quo shattering next-level stuff, but I don't think we're there yet. As others have replied, the problem isn't my typing, it's <40 square…

The standard keyboard layout, which every mechanical keyboard I've ever seen (including my beloved model M) is terrible for your wrists. The people using mechanical keyboards are not saving themselves anything. Get a proper ergonomic keyboard like the microsoft sculpt if you actually care about the health of you hands. Mechanical keyboards are cool, which is why I own one, and when I had an office why I used one ever…

> Get a proper ergonomic keyboard like the microsoft sculpt if you actually care about the health of you hands.

I had this conversation with my coworker a few minutes ago who uses an ergonomic keyboard. I believe that the amount of stress you're going to have from a non-ergonomic keyboard is directly related to your posture, which is directly related to your anatomy. For instance my coworker is very wide and he prefers to spread his elbows out while typing.

I, on the other hand don't spread out my elbows that far out, so I don't really feel that must stress while typing for long hours.

One thing which I do notice is that I type by moving my right wrist around (and most people do that to keep their wrists free for grabbing mouse and other things). But if I try doing touch typing where I keep my fingers on the homerow, then my wrists hurt.

Maybe I'm going to give ergo-dox a shot to see what am I missing.

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#177

Post by edoceo »

evadne wrote: post #155
meddlepal wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we can have our cake and eat it too. The all-glass office style at We Work could be adopted. I wish the glass was a bit thicker but the small shared office or bullpen model is ideal IMO.

I am currently working from a WeWork location and can provide a data point, that all-glass offices are terrible with soundproofing. The other downside of having glass partitions is that you could see what your neighbours were doing (and vice versa), which in my opinion is no different from visual pollution.

Yea, I tried weWork to see if my employees would like it. In one of the meeting rooms a neighbor came over and warned us not to talk about any confidential information since everyone in their office could hear us. We sell B2, in a regulated industry. Leaky sound is a deal breaker.

So, we're in a suburb now, $/sqft is less, 2 devs in a quiet room, 2 sales in a different room.

I will not get open plan for my team. 2 persons per 144sqft office seems a good fit to me

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#178

Post by wcummings »

coffeeski wrote: post #8

Why do CEO's think they're alone in the need for quiet spaces where they can focus? Sure some people can work in the noisy space where interruptions abound. The only thing in my office that works well with interruptions is my CPU. I'd rather have a Cube farm, but better yet, a small tiny phone booth as an office.

>I'd rather have a Cube farm

Cubes cost money, but Silly Valley CEOs have done such a great job convincing gullible young workers that they actually like open offices.

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#179

Post by justforFranz »

kumar785 wrote: post #173
hotsauceror wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cargo Cult is exactly right. Our organization is selling us this right now. "We're creating a more collaborative atmosphere! Facebook does it, this must be what IT people want." (Any discussion of paying IT staff like FB, though, is "well, we're not an IT company, and besides we're mission driven!") Because they don't think we're mature enough to accept that they want to squeeze more bodies unto a smaller space, for…

I don't think it is a cargo cult. My guess is that the focus is to make these engineers replaceable. And "quiet, introverted, methodical folks" are difficult to replace. Dumbed down open office workers and brogrammers are easily replaceable with another recent graduate some place cheaper.

Get yer cargo cult out of my bandwagon.

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#180

Post by bsg75 »

kumar785 wrote: post #173
hotsauceror wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cargo Cult is exactly right. Our organization is selling us this right now. "We're creating a more collaborative atmosphere! Facebook does it, this must be what IT people want." (Any discussion of paying IT staff like FB, though, is "well, we're not an IT company, and besides we're mission driven!") Because they don't think we're mature enough to accept that they want to squeeze more bodies unto a smaller space, for…

I don't think it is a cargo cult. My guess is that the focus is to make these engineers replaceable. And "quiet, introverted, methodical folks" are difficult to replace. Dumbed down open office workers and brogrammers are easily replaceable with another recent graduate some place cheaper.

Its both.
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