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Programmers are most likely to work from home

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Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#171

Post by amorphid »

freehunter wrote: post #100
grardb wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment doesn't read like it was written by a "humbleMouse" :) I don't think this is a healthy attitude to have towards less experienced developers. Literally every experienced developer was once inexperienced, and I think for the vast majority of people, it's hard to become a senior or even intermediate developer without some mentorship along the way. I believe this is especially true for aspects outside of wri…

I completely understand where he's coming from in writing that. Sometimes it feels like my entire day is spent training new hires, repeating the same things over and over again. In jobs where being an expert is a requirement, it's very frustrating to see the company hire employees fresh out of college and expect the senior employees to feed them 10 years of experience in a matter of weeks. And then either they take t…

I enjoy teaching people who like learning. The effort required to teach those who aren't that curious saps my energy, and eats into time I need to advance my own skills. I didn't work super hard to learn what I've learned just to give it away to someone who is indifferent.

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#172

Post by watwut »

onion2k wrote: post #67
humbleMouse wrote: post #15

There is a dirty secret that nobody talks about and the real reason that companies want programmers in the office. Companies want their top performers in the office so they can serve as trainers/mentors/teachers to the new college kids and the incompetent older people they hire. I think this is the real reason companies crack down on working from home. It's infuriating as a top performer - I just want to get my assig…

I don't want to teach all your shitty college grads how to actually code. Only a very inexperienced developer would actually want to work with people who aren't as good as they are. I genuinely want to be the worst person on my team. I'm pretty good, so that would mean we could do some amazing stuff.

It could also mean you will do all the routine menial work and will never get a chance to touch something more complicated :). I have seen more experienced seniors to treat less experienced junior pretty badly in the past. Junior did not learned all that much imo nor was given chance.

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#173

Post by CogitoCogito »

qandb wrote: post #72
John23832 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get what you're saying, it sucks training the new guy. It is however, the sign of a good/great programmer/performer to be able to train other people. Also, frankly, it just has to be done. Companies don't want to lock their knowledge into a few good people. You take on the challenge of efficiently "getting your assigned work done". I'd challenge you to take on the task of teaching others with the same mentality you…

> Companies don't want to lock their knowledge into a few good people. It is not their knowledge. It is these "few good people"'s knowledge. > I'd challenge you to take on the task of teaching others ... Never, ever. Only idiots agree to train their own competition.

This is cynical and depressing, but it's less off the mark than people here seem to think. In a _well_ run company, this attitude doesn't make sense. But in a company that does not respect or have loyalty to its employees, this attitude should be the expected result. Over time, it seems like more and more companies are falling into the second category and they will get the employees they deserve.

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#174

Post by ThrustVectoring »

skizm wrote: post #124
eddieh wrote: post #12

I like working from my office. I don't understand people that like working from home. Possible confounding variable: I live exactly two blocks from my office and don't have to commute. Perhaps, in actuality, people don't like to commute?

I will name some the reasons I like to work from home and none involve a commute: - I'm in an open office situation. - Standing desk is awkward when everyone else is sitting. - If I make a loud noise eating or sneezing or something like 5 people stare at me trying to figure out what is going on. - I can't have twitch or a baseball game on in the background because nosey co-workers will walk by, see my screen, and com…

>Constantly being pulled aside for conversations that can be answered in a sentence or two via slack or email.

Personal pet peeve: questions that I answer by literally pulling up the commit message for the last commit that changed the line in question.

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#175

Post by volkk »

ranit wrote: post #163
humbleMouse wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respectfully disagree. The justification for my high pay is because I integrate complex systems with shitty vendor web service api's and automate the transmission of sensitive data. The work I am doing has a huge impact on profitability of my company - much more than the joke of a 6 figure rate they are paying to keep me around. I avoid being a fulltime employee because I don't want to have some unwritten commitmen…

Out of curiosity: if you are a contract employee, what does 6 figure rate mean? Contractors are usually paid an hourly rate.

i assume he means once calculated for yearly, it would be that of a 6 figure rate

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#176

Post by Chaebixi »

JamesBarney wrote: post #122
NumberSix wrote: post #112

The article does not discuss the impact of the open office movement. I've worked from home, in actual offices, in cubicles both cramped and spacious, and open offices. It can be quite difficult to focus at home due to various distractions, especially if you do not have a separate room or area for work. It is difficult to separate work and non-work with a home office. There are a variety of communications issues with…

There was recently some evidence that open offices led to reduced collaboration because a real office means asking someone a question disturbs one instead of 20 people. So people end up asking less questions, and interacting with there co-workers less.

That's not surprising. The dogma of open offices assumes that most disruptions are informative, when in fact they're just disruptive.

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#177

Post by laythea »

freehunter wrote: post #100
grardb wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment doesn't read like it was written by a "humbleMouse" :) I don't think this is a healthy attitude to have towards less experienced developers. Literally every experienced developer was once inexperienced, and I think for the vast majority of people, it's hard to become a senior or even intermediate developer without some mentorship along the way. I believe this is especially true for aspects outside of wri…

I completely understand where he's coming from in writing that. Sometimes it feels like my entire day is spent training new hires, repeating the same things over and over again. In jobs where being an expert is a requirement, it's very frustrating to see the company hire employees fresh out of college and expect the senior employees to feed them 10 years of experience in a matter of weeks. And then either they take t…

I think you are being a bit dramatic, however what you describe does happen to some extent. When it does, its either a management failure for not responding to the senior software engineer voicing concerns that his/her time is not spent in the proper proportion between work/mentoring, or, it is the fault of the senior software engineer for just sitting there, refusing as much as possible to help the less experienced co-worker, whilst not properly communicating it upwards. It is certainly not the fault of the one asking the questions.

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#178

Post by lbrindze »

I have worked in a quite office and an open office and I think at the end of the day my feelings are the same. I am more productive and can get more done in less time when I do my own thing in my own space.

One thing I think worth mentioning though is as our systems become more and more distributed there is a clear advantage to having the limitations in communication folks are bringing up. It really forces you into a mindset where you have to nail down your API so others can neatly interface with your work. When I'm in the same location as a teammate, I'm more likely to just go over and ask them how their module/service works, which I might argue leads to more intertwined, less decoupled code. If I am physically removed from other team members, I am forced to make more independent resilient systems because in order for projects to be more successful, I have to more closely stick to the predefined API specs from the outset.

I am fortunate in that I have garnered enough skill/demand that I can work from my boat, sailing around Mexico, so for me, the freedom independent contracting has allowed in my personal life is unmatched. I undrrstand why managers and business owners are loathe to offer this kind of work, and I think partly it's because a few bad eggs has given wfh a bad rep

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#179

Post by lbrindze »

I have worked in a quiet office and an open office and I think at the end of the day my feelings are the same. I am more productive and can get more done in less time when I do my own thing in my own space.

One thing I think worth mentioning though is as our systems become more and more distributed there is a clear advantage to having the limitations in communication folks are bringing up. It really forces you into a mindset where you have to nail down your API so others can neatly interface with your work. When I'm in the same location as a teammate, I'm more likely to just go over and ask them how their module/service works, which I might argue leads to more intertwined, less decoupled code. If I am physically removed from other team members, I am forced to make more independent resilient systems because in order for projects to be more successful, I have to more closely stick to the predefined API specs from the outset.

I am fortunate in that I have garnered enough skill/demand that I can work from my boat, sailing around Mexico, so for me, the freedom independent contracting has allowed in my personal life is unmatched. I undrrstand why managers and business owners are loathe to offer this kind of work, and I think partly it's because a few bad eggs has given wfh a bad rep

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#180

Post by cjf101 »

eddieh wrote: post #12

I like working from my office. I don't understand people that like working from home. Possible confounding variable: I live exactly two blocks from my office and don't have to commute. Perhaps, in actuality, people don't like to commute?

We have a flexible WFH system, in that we can work one or two days from home a week as desired/required.

It's a 20-25 minute commute to work, and I really notice the difference in the quality of my day when I work from home. I can work, go to the gym, make food, do chores, and still have time to do something worthwhile after work hours.

When I commute, all of the little things end up and my day feels so much shorter.

That said, I like going into the office, even if it is cubicle land. Spontaneous design conversations are valuable. If people are having a problem, I can hear it, and jump in if I can contribute. It would be challenging to be 100% remote in my role, which involves communication, mentoring, and team organization in additional to technical work.

If I lived two blocks from the office, I'd have the best of both worlds :)

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