Am I the only one disgusted by the canned replies from Airbnb to Luciano? The guy had his home ruined and all Peter from Airbnb can talk about is file format requirements. Where is the empathy?
Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment
171–180 of 232 posts
Re: Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment
#172Somehow that page's autoplaying video gets around the browser's mute control. The web continues to get worse...
Re: Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment
#173Earlier quoted context omitted.
Man, that is bad; totally agree with you DanBC. The third time the AirBnB rep asked for details of the blinds I was gob-smacked that I could have noticed it twice already on a brief scan and they apparently didn't see it - or perhaps it was just a delaying tactic to force the financial situation to become more grave for their client, like you say true Black Mirror stuff. Then at the end they try to low-ball him on wh…
It's totally sad, but the ignoring of client responses and repeated redundant requests for information already provided, is a standard psychological domination tactic used by interrogators and ( hey, whaddaya know ) compliance people. It's meant to cause the client to become more subdued, submissive and easier to handle. I hate this kind of thing being used by a company that I wanted to respect. I truly believe: powe…
ignoring of client responses and repeated redundant requests for information already provided, is a standard psychological domination tactic used by interrogators and ( hey, whaddaya know ) compliance people. It's meant to cause the client to become more subdued, submissive and easier to handle.
I can see how this works as an immediate measure, but I wonder how well it works overall.
To give a personal example, I was once screwed out of a non-trivial but not life-changing amount of money by a business that should have known better. They subsequently gave me the run-around, and given the circumstances I strongly suspect that this was a cynical and deliberate practice on their part.
In the end I dropped the issue. This was mostly due to my ignorance at the time of how our legal system worked, which meant the value of my time spent researching small claims procedures was likely to exceed the potential compensation (since you typically don't get any compensation for time spent on the legal proceedings themselves with a small claims action here). For a system meant to avoid wasting a lot of time and incurring a lot of costs in relatively low value cases, it sure was hard to figure out the basics of how it worked and what you had to do in order to use it.
On the other hand, I now do understand more about our system, and I have access to various lawyers and helplines and such. My view now is that a business that screwed up gets polite and constructive communications from me as long as it offers likewise in return. If it was a genuine mistake and they do reasonable things to try to make it right, that will typically be the end of the matter, no hard feelings. However, the moment any business tries to mess me around even slightly, I no longer hesitate or carry on informal discussions that don't seem to be going anywhere useful. The next thing they get is either a letter from me that formally initiates the small claims procedure or a letter from a real lawyer acting on my behalf if it's serious enough, either way clearly setting out my grievance in writing and including a deadline for resolving the matter so it's clear that if they continue to mess me around they will wind up in court.
The consequence of this policy in the years since then has invariably been getting reasonable results almost immediately and without any serious danger of actually getting to court or incurring significant expenses. Most places seem to have a policy that the moment you go legal they have to refer to their own legal department. When they in turn look at the situation properly and see that their business is obviously in the wrong, it seems that SOP is to immediately remove the customer service people from the table and the next thing I receive has normally been an offer to settle on reasonable terms with no admission of anything by either side. Usually settling on reasonable terms is all I wanted in the first place, so apparently this policy is quite successful.
I do slightly pity any business that treats me like that first one in the future, though. I once made the mistake of teaching such a business that it can succeed by doing so, and while I'm well aware of the arguments against litigating on principle, I consider that incident a stain on my karma that can only be balanced by making an example of the next one, as expensively and publicly as the law permits.
Re: Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment
#174The irony of YC's flagship startup forcing exploding term sheets on their customers is a bit much to take. [ ps ] Airbnb's statement concluding this story says that this interaction fell short of their expectations. Maybe they can go a bit farther. Can they commit (just a comment here would suffice) to not using the exploding-settlement tactic with their clients? Maybe all they'd really need to say is that nobody out…
Thats a pretty unreasonable request that a billion dollar company agree not to include deadlines in their settlement offers moving forward. In fact I've never heard of a settlement agreement without a deadline, it wouldn't amount to malpractice but it would be pretty negligent to offer any type of settlement agreement on open ended terms of acceptance. As to the NDA/confidentiality, that too is the default of settlem…
This doesn't read as a settlement to me. It reads as "if you want the rest of the sum you are entitled too, you have to sign this NDA so you won't be able to further tell the public how we've tried to not reimburse the damage".
Re: Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment
#175What's going on here? The first half of the story sounds like routine corporate incompetency. Representatives don't read your stuff, can't be bothered to follow their own procedures, and screw you over. Unacceptable but, alas, fairly common when dealing with big companies. The NDA is where it goes off the rails. He's entitled to that money, so why would they try to put conditions on it? I'm sure they're not thrilled…
It's not unusual for settlements to have conditions attached, which makes this NDA thing somewhat less outlandish than it seems at first. For instance, if you settle with an insurance company after a car accident, you may have to sign something which says "that is it", waiving your right to sue anyone for anything more. If the person is properly compensated 100%, but keeps talking, it can be argued that their materia…
How is that a settlement and not applying their terms and conditions as it should have been the first time ? Maybe even a bribe to shut him up before this has a chance to make headlines.
Re: Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment
#176Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not unusual for settlements to have conditions attached, which makes this NDA thing somewhat less outlandish than it seems at first. For instance, if you settle with an insurance company after a car accident, you may have to sign something which says "that is it", waiving your right to sue anyone for anything more. If the person is properly compensated 100%, but keeps talking, it can be argued that their materia…
Does AirBNB routinely require non-disclosures for claims against its host guarantee?
We wouldn't know as this NDA states that host is forbidden from even acknowledging such a NDA exist.
Re: Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment
#177Earlier quoted context omitted.
What regulations are you referring to that would prevent this? You can just as easily book a hotel and throw a party there and do all sorts of damage. They don't take much of a deposit either (or they hold a card) because there's a fine line between protecting yourself and a sensible amount for your average guest. The problem here is that AirBnB takes a good chunk of a booking and doesn't do much to vet guests. They…
don't think regulations will help, but this definitely does: hotels can charge the renters' credit cards for damage done to the property, but airbnb hosts cannot do that to renters. so the risk to the hotel is minimized. i'm sure if someone damages a room so badly that they have to refurnish the whole thing, they'll happily bill the guest for replacement, item delivery, labour, yield loss, the whole thing - mark up t…
You can set a security deposit and charge the renter on AirBnB [1].
[1] https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/59/how-do-i-add-a-securi...
Re: Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment
#178Hmmm...actually the most clearly unethical act was not the low ball offer, the deadlines, or the non-disclosure request--it was the repeated insistence by "Peter" that "the decision reached in this case is final, and cannot be overturned" which is a blatant lie.
The Airbnb Host Guarantee clearly lays out an arbitration process in case of any dispute.
https://www.airbnb.com/terms/host_guarantee
General. You and Airbnb agree that any dispute, claim or controversy arising out of or relating to these Airbnb Host Guarantee Terms or the breach, termination, enforcement, interpretation or validity thereof, or to the use of the Services or use of the Site or Application (collectively, “Disputes”) will be settled by binding arbitration. You acknowledge and agree that you and Airbnb are each waiving the right to a trial by jury or to participate as a plaintiff or class member in any purported class action lawsuit, class-wide arbitration, private attorney-general action, or any other representative proceeding. Further, unless both you and Airbnb otherwise agree in writing, the arbitrator may not consolidate more than one person’s claims, and may not otherwise preside over any form of any class or representative proceeding. If this specific paragraph is held unenforceable, then the entirety of this “Dispute Resolution” section will be deemed void. Except as provided in the preceding sentence, this “Dispute Resolution” section will survive any termination of these Airbnb Host Guarantee Terms.
Arbitration Rules and Governing Law. This agreement to arbitrate evidences a transaction in interstate commerce, and thus the Federal Arbitration Act governs the interpretation and enforcement of this provision. The arbitration will be administered by the American Arbitration Association (“AAA”) in accordance with the Consumer Arbitration Rules (the “AAA Rules”) then in effect, except as modified by this “Dispute Resolution” section. (The AAA Rules are available at http://www.adr.org or by calling the AAA at +1 800 778 7879.) The Federal Arbitration Act will govern the interpretation and enforcement of this Section.
Arbitration Process. A party who desires to initiate arbitration must provide the other party with a written Demand for Arbitration as specified in the AAA Rules. (The AAA provides a form Demand for Arbitration. https://www.adr.org/cs/idcplg?IdcService=GET_FILE&dDocName=A... ) The arbitrator will be either a retired judge or an attorney licensed to practice law in the state of California and will be selected by the parties from the AAA’s roster of consumer dispute arbitrators. If the parties are unable to agree upon an arbitrator within seven (7) days of delivery of the Demand for Arbitration, then the AAA will appoint the arbitrator in accordance with the AAA Rules.
Arbitration Location and Procedure. Unless you and Airbnb otherwise agree, the arbitration will be conducted in the county where you reside. If your claim does not exceed $10,000, then the arbitration will be conducted solely on the basis of documents you and Airbnb submit to the arbitrator, unless you request a hearing or the arbitrator determines that a hearing is necessary. If your claim exceeds $10,000, your right to a hearing will be determined by the AAA Rules. Subject to the AAA Rules, the arbitrator will have the discretion to direct a reasonable exchange of information by the parties, consistent with the expedited nature of the arbitration.
Arbitrator’s Decision. The arbitrator will render an award within the time frame specified in the AAA Rules. The arbitrator’s decision will include the essential findings and conclusions upon which the arbitrator based the award. Judgment on the arbitration award may be entered in any court having jurisdiction thereof. The arbitrator’s award damages must be consistent with the terms of the “Disclaimers and Limitations of Liability” section above as to the types and the amounts of damages for which a party may be held liable. The arbitrator may award declaratory or injunctive relief only in favor of the claimant and only to the extent necessary to provide relief warranted by the claimant’s individual claim. If you prevail in arbitration you will be entitled to an award of attorneys’ fees and expenses, to the extent provided under applicable law. Airbnb will not seek, and hereby waives all rights it may have under applicable law to recover, attorneys’ fees and expenses if it prevails in arbitration.
Arbitration Fees. Your responsibility to pay any AAA filing, administrative and arbitrator fees will be solely as set forth in the AAA Rules. However, if your claim for damages does not exceed $75,000, Airbnb will pay all such fees unless the arbitrator finds that either the substance of your claim or the relief sought in your Demand for Arbitration was frivolous or was brought for an improper purpose (as measured by the standards set forth in Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 11(b)).
Re: Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe he had renter's insurance or something, or some other form of liability insurance? (I don't know how this works in the UK). If I were the lessor/host, I'd demand Airbnb pay 100% and then let them go after whichever other parties they want later. The host should not be the one on the hook for any of this, including float for however long reimbursement takes. (If I were Airbnb I'd probably sue the guest; clearly…
I'd be surprised if residential renter's insurance in the US, UK, or Canada covered things done during a daily sublet of the space without some special rider policy. This customer should be covered well enough by AirBNB's agreement, which apparently only with the help of The Observer is actually the case.
This is an existential risk for AirBNB, and they are not handling it well.
Re: Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment
#180Unless I've overlooked something, the NDA seems to work largely against Airbnb. It limits their liability to this payment, and compels the host to provide "reasonable cooperation", but on confidentiality it only states:
> I acknowledge that the existence of the payment by Airbnb and this Airbnb Payment Agreement are confidential.
There seems to be nothing stopping the host from continuing to assert "Airbnb customers wrecked my flat; Airbnb provided terrible support and miscalculated damages".