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VPNs are not the solution to a policy problem

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Re: VPNs are not the solution to a policy problem

#171

Post by sbov »

whoopdedo wrote: post #134
jfoutz wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you overestimate the average politician. They may not bother with the internet. I'm confident Senator Lamar does not. But really, i don't think it would take very long to figure out where he and his staff in DC and in Tennessee live. I don't know what the data purchase rates are, so that could be expensive. But buy the data for a bunch of neighborhoods. Perhaps 50,000 people. watch the data for a while, query…

Getting the information through their ISP may be too subtle. Just send them a FOIA request for the browser history. When they ask why or deny it, you can raise the question of why they want to keep their information private, but allow our information to be fair game.

This doesn't work. They will simply deny your request and say "no big deal". I mean, they're important people, of course you shouldn't see their private browsing information!

The big deal is when you drop a report full of embarrassing information you collected without their knowledge and they are powerless to stop it because of their own bill they passed.

Re: VPNs are not the solution to a policy problem

#172

Post by shwouchk »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #146
jaredklewis wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly disagree. This policy fight isn't a fight to regulate the market (like the automobile regulations you mentioned). It's a fight for a fundamental right to privacy. Any technology improvement that can protect privacy can be made illegal, and enforced by a boot on the face (see China). If the government makes encryption without government key escrow illegal (not at all outlandish, has been discussed in many c…

Maybe nitpicking, but: > a fight for a fundamental right to privacy Many don't consider this to be a fundamental right. > A tech that takes 100 years to develop can be made illegal in a day. As the recorded history goes, I think it was always the other way around - a new technological development suddenly invalidating a set of laws, and lawmakers playing catch-up with its use. I wish governments of the world got thei…

> Many don't consider this to be a fundamental right.

Is that why everyone agrees that the constitution protects this right in the physical domain?

Re: VPNs are not the solution to a policy problem

#173

Post by walterbell »

wizardforhire wrote: post #57
sjwright wrote: post #44

Perhaps one solution might be to poison the data and have your router/device make spurious random DNS lookups and HTTPS connections. Ensure the list of random websites includes the top few hundred companies likely to be in the market for usage data. If enough people did this it would make the data useless.

How would one go about doing this? More importantly... Is there a simple cross platform application I could have my friends and family install that takes little to no effort on their part?

https://adnauseam.io on Firefox.

Re: VPNs are not the solution to a policy problem

#174

Post by FussyZeus »

igk wrote: post #157
nikcub wrote: post #102

There are a few schools of thought on where responsibility should lie in protecting user privacy. The first that it is a role of government and policy - in the same way the government sets standards for automobile and road safety they can set and enforce policies for user privacy. The second school of thought is individual responsibility. Users should take steps to protect their own privacy on a case-by-case basis, i…

> The second school of thought is individual responsibility. Users should take steps to protect their own privacy on a case-by-case basis, in the same way they look after their own home security or personal safety. I think this is a bullshit argument. Nobody looks after their home security or personal security the way we expect users to be careful of their privacy, nor do we accept the amount of intrusions into our h…

> We have police, laws, community rules, all of these things to protect our houses and personal security. If you leave the door unlocked, robbing it is still a crime. Likewise, if you walk around on an unsafe neighbourhood and get robbed, it would be ludicrous to hear "well, the city warned you that part is unsafe, so the police isn't going to investigate"

Agreed, and it still amazes me how these advertisers and startups can simply hand-wave away any responsibility for any compromising data about you ending up in the wrong hands with a simple shrug.

Re: VPNs are not the solution to a policy problem

#176

Post by TeMPOraL »

shwouchk wrote: post #172
TeMPOraL wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe nitpicking, but: > a fight for a fundamental right to privacy Many don't consider this to be a fundamental right. > A tech that takes 100 years to develop can be made illegal in a day. As the recorded history goes, I think it was always the other way around - a new technological development suddenly invalidating a set of laws, and lawmakers playing catch-up with its use. I wish governments of the world got thei…

> Many don't consider this to be a fundamental right. Is that why everyone agrees that the constitution protects this right in the physical domain?

In physical world we differentiate between public and private spaces, with different expectations of privacy in each of them. There's a debate to be had about appropriate demarkations on the Internet.

Re: VPNs are not the solution to a policy problem

#177

Post by snarf21 »

confounded wrote: post #81
jfoutz wrote: post #61

Lots of people seem to think the right answer is selling improved security. I disagree. It would be much more exiting to get the data coming from politicians homes, and the homes of their staff. It would be a fantastic way to generate news. Why is senator X's household researching cancer treatment? Will they step down this year? I can't help but think military bases would google their next deployment, that's another…

Those people will have VPNs and other security measures. This is about exploiting ordinary people to widen the power differential between the two.

Like setting up an unsecure email server in a basement?

Re: VPNs are not the solution to a policy problem

#178

Post by j_s »

ianai wrote: post #139
jfoutz wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you overestimate the average politician. They may not bother with the internet. I'm confident Senator Lamar does not. But really, i don't think it would take very long to figure out where he and his staff in DC and in Tennessee live. I don't know what the data purchase rates are, so that could be expensive. But buy the data for a bunch of neighborhoods. Perhaps 50,000 people. watch the data for a while, query…

I think you're onto something. I also think this falls into investigative journalism - which used to be able to drum up funds for that sort of cost. There are all sorts of problems like this. What could you learn from the browsing history of people that work in sensitive areas? i.e. nuclear facilities, national labs, financial/industry regulators, etc. City and state representatives probably give away a lot through b…

https://www.gofundme.com/BuyCongressData

https://searchinternethistory.com/ (currently 500 errors)

source: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13985684

Re: VPNs are not the solution to a policy problem

#179

Post by arca_vorago »

igk wrote: post #157
nikcub wrote: post #102

There are a few schools of thought on where responsibility should lie in protecting user privacy. The first that it is a role of government and policy - in the same way the government sets standards for automobile and road safety they can set and enforce policies for user privacy. The second school of thought is individual responsibility. Users should take steps to protect their own privacy on a case-by-case basis, i…

> The second school of thought is individual responsibility. Users should take steps to protect their own privacy on a case-by-case basis, in the same way they look after their own home security or personal safety. I think this is a bullshit argument. Nobody looks after their home security or personal security the way we expect users to be careful of their privacy, nor do we accept the amount of intrusions into our h…

> We have police, laws, community rules, all of these things to protect our houses and personal security. If you leave the door unlocked, robbing it is still a crime. Likewise, if you walk around on an unsafe neighbourhood and get robbed, it would be ludicrous to hear "well, the city warned you that part is unsafe, so the police isn't going to investigate"

The irony of this statement is that this actually happens quite often in certain east of the track neighborhoods, especially when the victim is a minority. It goes to show that this attitude, while I don't agree with it, isn't so far from the reality as you might think.

Coming from out west, this is one of the cultural reasons I am pro-gun. The police are just there to draw the chalk line around your body, it is your responsibility to defend yourself, your loved ones, and your home.

Always remember that the constitution was created to protect, not establish rights, rights that you have independent of the constitution itself, and of these rights, the right to self defense is one. The second amendment is simply about defense against tyranny. Even if you got rid of the second amendment I still have the right to bear arms.

Which makes me wonder, how well could the right to self defense argument be applied to encryption?

It's almost like everyone forgot about the 90's crypto wars, but it makes me think of something Eben Moglen said about the 90's crypto wars being just a temporary setback to TPTB;

https://youtu.be/sKOk4Y4inVY?t=580

Re: VPNs are not the solution to a policy problem

#180

Post by j_s »

angry-hacker wrote: post #68
mirimir wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you have much more choice for VPN providers than for ISPs. And you can change VPN periodically, far more easily than changing ISP. Also, you can use nested chains of VPNs, much like Tor, to distribute trust. So adversaries must compromise multiple providers, quickly enough that logs will be available. Edit: Also, you can pick VPN providers outside your adversary's sphere of influence. That's standard advice f…

And now both of your vpn owners have your data connected to your ips. You do have more choice but if both of them sell the data, it doesn't make any difference.

If you need multiple residential IPs, use Hola's Luminati. If you don't trust them (a wise move), do so illegitimately.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13676600

You can also tunnel to Tor through domain fronting.

https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/AChildsGar...

https://www.fireeye.com/blog/threat-research/2017/03/apt29_d...

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