Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tencent buys 5% of Tesla

techcrunch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 376 posts

Re: Tencent buys 5% of Tesla

#171

Post by Matt3o12_ »

hueving wrote: post #147
aphextron wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To sell that many $35,000 sedans in the U.S. “would be absolutely unprecedented based on what we know about car markets today and how people spend their dollars,” said Salim Morsy, electric car analyst at Bloomberg New Energy Finance. “It could happen. I’m pretty sure it won’t.” Model 3's will sell literally as fast as Tesla can push them off the production line. The pent up demand for this thing is insane. Over 40…

Or withdrawals from people. The deposits are non-committal so people can cancel without losing anything.

Well, they lost access to $1,000 until they cancel (plus 3-6 weeks, since it can allegedly take Tesla this long to refund the money).

I don't think 400,000 have just $1,000 to spare for a really anything they will just cancel. The $1,000 mean that the person who reserved it really wanted the car and is unlikely to just refund it unless they have a very good reason to do so.

Re: Tencent buys 5% of Tesla

#172

Post by danhak »

prolly_a_moron wrote: post #169
danhak wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a comment you wrote elsewhere in this thread: > It's my understanding that this was another offering, so, essentially, Tesla sold 5% to Tencent at an average price of $217 and change. Current shareholders get diluted. Prices go up. This is entirely incorrect. The only shares Tesla told to Tencent were priced at $255 as part of the March 17 offering, and that only represents < 2% of Tencent's position.

> This is entirely incorrect. The comment was 4 hours old, based off a Seeking Alpha news bulletin (I should have known better) and was prefaced with "it's my understanding..." which left it open for you, or anyone else, to correct. What exactly are you out to prove here?

I'm not out to prove anything. I was just trying to correct misinformation, just like you said!

Re: Tencent buys 5% of Tesla

#173

Post by w8vY7ER »

smogcutter wrote: post #153
dmix wrote: post #120

Tesla recently announced they are ramping up their Model 3 production even more than what some people thought was already optimistic numbers: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-27/tesla-mod... > For Musk to hit all of his targets, Tesla would need to build about 430,000 Model 3s by the end of next year. That’s more than all of the electric cars sold planet-wide last year. > Even if half of the Model 3 in…

A related concern is how well their repair and service operation scales. There are already repair horror stories all over internet for the relatively tiny number of cars already on the road. The model S is a beautiful car, but it's a luxury toy. I'll venture that most Model S owners have at least one additional car. If you're in the market for a 35k sedan though, you're looking for a commuter and family car that need…

It is worth noting that Jon McNeill (Pres. Global Sales and Service) took the time to post on a user forum in direct response to service delays and spoke with a fair bit of detail about how they are fixing the problem. Whether or not you are a fan, I think everyone can agree that this level of engagement is a strong positive for their cause. https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/2004525/

Re: Tencent buys 5% of Tesla

#174

Post by vkou »

mikeash wrote: post #138
Digit-Al wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a couple of questions for those out there with more knowledge of the subject than me. Firstly, how long do you think it will be before there is a thriving second hand market in EVs? Secondly, do EVs currently hold their value better than traditional vehicles? I think you can only say EVs are a success when a used market is thriving. Many people can't afford new after all.

There's a pretty decent market for used Model Ss out there. It's not huge, since Model Ss of sufficient age don't exist in great numbers, but it's not too bad. I've been looking at cheaper used EVs for a second car. There are lots of used LEAFs out there, some Smart EDs, and a couple of Focus Electrics, which look really nice if you don't mind the short range, but aren't very popular at all. These cars seem to drop i…

One of the reasons for why there are so many used LEAFs on the market, is that a lot of EV early adopters sold their Leaf to buy a Tesla. If you wanted an EV, and could afford it, the specs on the Model S are much better.

This is not really great news for the low-end EV market, though - if the average person isn't interested in a midly used Keep in mind that after years of making cars, Tesla is still struggling with quality control, supply chains, and repairs.

If we took a time machine, and traveled back to the early 00s, would you have dropped $40,000 on a vehicle made by Kia?

That's roughly where Tesla is today, in terms of maturity. I'm sure it will get better - but it may take a decade.

Re: Tencent buys 5% of Tesla

#175

Post by tuna-piano »

wfunction wrote: post #167
hueving wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or withdrawals from people. The deposits are non-committal so people can cancel without losing anything.

> Or withdrawals from people. The deposits are non-committal so people can cancel without losing anything. I feel this is going to be the killer for them.

I would assume that a company investing billions would try very hard to make accurate sales estimates.

I would be surprised if Tesla isn't surveying random people on the list, asking questions about their planned purchase and making estimates on the % that will end up cancelling.

Re: Tencent buys 5% of Tesla

#176

Post by mpclark »

wfunction wrote: post #167
hueving wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or withdrawals from people. The deposits are non-committal so people can cancel without losing anything.

> Or withdrawals from people. The deposits are non-committal so people can cancel without losing anything. I feel this is going to be the killer for them.

Is there a secondary market for places in the line?

Re: Tencent buys 5% of Tesla

#177

Post by vkou »

greglindahl wrote: post #96
Cerium wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious about what you would consider a tech company. For me a tech company is any company that uses the development of technology as a competitive advantage. Solar is not, major solar companies are not developing innovative technology. Tesla is, they do not have an advantage in scale or low prices, but have advantage in how their vehicles function.

So you don't think that 3d printing solar roof tiles is innovative solar technology? I don't think anyone else is talking about that.

Is 3d-printing car parts an innovative technology? Is Ford now a tech company? [1]

[1] https://techcrunch.com/2017/03/05/ford-begins-testing-3d-pri...

Re: Tencent buys 5% of Tesla

#178

Post by forgotpwtomain »

dmix wrote: post #120

Tesla recently announced they are ramping up their Model 3 production even more than what some people thought was already optimistic numbers: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-27/tesla-mod... > For Musk to hit all of his targets, Tesla would need to build about 430,000 Model 3s by the end of next year. That’s more than all of the electric cars sold planet-wide last year. > Even if half of the Model 3 in…

> environment as well

It's not going to do anything great for the environment and we've been over this on previous Tesla threads (years ago). Driving electric cars instead of hybrids in areas where the electricity is primarily derived from unclean sources is not better than hybrids for the environment.

Re: Tencent buys 5% of Tesla

#179

Post by chiph »

michel-slm wrote: post #109
Robotbeat wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I own a Volt. Best car I've ever driven. GM doesn't care much for it. The only advertising they really do for it basically is trying to steal EV customers from Nissan's Leaf. Really dumb. And the dealers don't like it because 1) they don't know how to service them and especially 2) they almost never need servicing. If you run almost exclusively on electric, you only need like 4-5 oil changes in the entire life of the…

I'm on a work visa here in the US, and I couldn't get financing on a Volt because GM Financial insisted on doing > 30 months lease on their hybrid cars (and my work visa expires before then, though it's likely to be renewed anyway). Go figure. It's not like I can't afford the monthly payments.

Did you talk to an independent leasing company? You don't have to lease via the automaker.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-greatest-auto-lease-dea...

Re: Tencent buys 5% of Tesla

#180

Post by Robotbeat »

Digit-Al wrote: post #132
mikeash wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EVs are unpopular because cheap ones aren't very good yet. You have to choose between almost unusably short range, or a very high price. Something like the LEAF is affordable, but only useful as a city car. A Model S is a great car, but extremely expensive. The cost is coming down. Chevy is now selling the Bolt, which has pretty good range, for under $40,000. Tesla's Model 3 is coming soon. More will follow. The high…

Here's a couple of questions for those out there with more knowledge of the subject than me. Firstly, how long do you think it will be before there is a thriving second hand market in EVs? Secondly, do EVs currently hold their value better than traditional vehicles? I think you can only say EVs are a success when a used market is thriving. Many people can't afford new after all.

Well, I bought my '12 Volt used for under $10,000 with 60,000 miles. At the time I bought (last year), they were usually about $12,000 at a dealer, and trade-in about $8000 for the same car. I got mine from a friend who wanted to trade-in (to get a new Volt... the Gen 2 Volts--starting with 2016--are even better than Gen 1), so we both got a good deal. Fantastic car.

Anyway, there are plenty of used electric cars out there if you're happy with the models that have been out for a few years.

Post reply on HN