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Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

latimes.com

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Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#171

Post by thaumasiotes »

ZoeZoeBee wrote: post #167
thaumasiotes wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The average income for the USA in 2008 was $28K! > That's the average - meaning that for every person earning $75K (not that much) there are a dozen people earning $20K. For all your emphasis, this is a pretty dramatic misunderstanding of how averages work. You'd need a histogram to make the claim you're making. The population earning $75K can equal the population earning $20K, or have basically any other relation…

That's why they use Median Income When talking about average income in the US https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_...

The claim I objected to is much more nonsensical based off of a median figure than it is when based off of a mean. You use median income if you want a sense of how much money a "typical person" earns as opposed to how much the entire population earns collectively. But neither median nor mean will tell you anything at all about the shape of the distribution.

And yes, as dragonwriter points out, your own link clearly shows that the mean US income for 2008 was just over $28K. (It also shows that the mean US income for 2008 was just under $27K; within-article consistency is not a big priority on Wikipedia...)

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#172

Post by dmode »

wavefunction wrote: post #162
dmode wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't grow up in the US, but is this because parenting changed around this time ? Where I grew up, we would hear stories about kids in the US leaving their homes at 15 and trying to figure things out. But when I moved here, i have never seen it. All the families I know take good care of their kids throughout college and even after. So there is no need for them to work at low paying fast food jobs. Their parents ca…

Given your description of folks here in the US (which is positive and flattering) I think you're overlooking most of the population of the country, for which your description of college or building startups is not true.

I was referring specifically to what OP was hinting at - changing demographic at fast food stores in wealthy areas.

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#173

Post by nattaylor »

datatan wrote: post #90
nattaylor wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article indicates a 15-year trend of rising wages, yet we don't see American farmhands flocking to CA, so it seems like a fair headline to me.

> The article indicates a 15-year trend of rising wages, yet we don't see American farmhands flocking to CA, so it seems like a fair headline to me. That's because you're biased. Its a small trend over a long period of time that doesn't outpace the cost of living. There is also a massive shortage of farmers thanks to big agriculture killing them all off. Most farmers want to own the land they work. Good luck with tha…

I'm not a Californian or a farmer.

I read there's a 50% increase in wages, during a period when CPI is up more like 30% in California [0], and I'm saying I agree with the article: it seems like a reasonable economic incentive.

To respond to your comment: isn't a farm worker different from a farmer? I thought the former was someone who does things that require little to no training, like picking grapes, and that these are the people the article references.

0 - http://www.calrecycle.ca.gov/LGCentral/DivMeasure/AdjustMeth...

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#174

Post by Kluny »

greedo wrote: post #28

When I was younger, I worked at a McDonalds in SoCal. Almost all the employees were white teenagers. The managers were white as well. We didn't make much, just a bit above minimum wage, but we were all mostly high-school students or college students working in the summer to pay tuition. This went on until around 1984 or so, when it became much harder to hire this demographic. It wasn't as cool to work at fast food, a…

I'm not in the states, but if I had a high school age kid I think I'd do anything I could to get them a better summer job than McD's. The money isn't the point - they're going to end up competing with adults for real jobs at some point, and the more high quality items they can get on a resume, the better their chances. Middle class kids legit can't afford to work in fast food because they need to spend their school years doing something more valuable than that.

I would probably advise my kids to shadow a tradesman, volunteer at a hospital or for a political campaign, plant trees, lead at a summer camp, or any other thing that will lead to better opportunities than fast food. Even working in a high end restaurant would be better.

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#175

Post by ZoeZoeBee »

dragonwriter wrote: post #170
ZoeZoeBee wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why they use Median Income When talking about average income in the US https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_...

The article you link to refers first to per capita income, which is mean (the usual average), and then the median .

>The Census Bureau releases estimates of household money income as medians, percent distributions by income categories, and on a per capita basis. Estimates are available by demographic characteristics of householders and by the composition of households

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#176

Post by pasquinelli »

dmode wrote: post #172
wavefunction wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given your description of folks here in the US (which is positive and flattering) I think you're overlooking most of the population of the country, for which your description of college or building startups is not true.

I was referring specifically to what OP was hinting at - changing demographic at fast food stores in wealthy areas.

Well, really the seem to be talking about an area that became more wealthy, right?

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#177

Post by dragonwriter »

ZoeZoeBee wrote: post #175
dragonwriter wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article you link to refers first to per capita income, which is mean (the usual average), and then the median .

>The Census Bureau releases estimates of household money income as medians, percent distributions by income categories, and on a per capita basis. Estimates are available by demographic characteristics of householders and by the composition of households

Yes, later in the article it says that, too. Which still is inconsistent with your claim; both the median and the usual average, the mean (per capita), are reported, it is not the case that just the median is used and reported as the "average".

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#178

Post by Kluny »

edblarney wrote: post #86
Kluny wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I was homeless in LA, I still wouldn't work for 16 bucks an hour in the hot sun around dangerous chemicals with no benefits in the middle of nowhere.

" I still wouldn't work for 16 bucks an hour in the hot sun around dangerous chemicals with no benefits in the middle of nowhere." You wouldn't work for what is about 20% above the national wage, to feed yourself, put a roof over your head? If most people share your sentiment - then America is finished. You're done. It's over. I hope that's not the case.

America is already finished.

In my country, you can work in a warehouse. You get job security, full health coverage, and 18 per hour. There are worker safety regulations that actually get followed, regular breaks, shade, and ppe provided if you're working with dangerous chemicals. You're not out in the sun all day. The US agricultural industry can't provide any of this. Why would anyone work for them if they weren't a poor immigrant planning to take their wages back to Mexico, where 16 is at least a living wage?

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#179

Post by ZoeZoeBee »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #171
ZoeZoeBee wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why they use Median Income When talking about average income in the US https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_...

The claim I objected to is much more nonsensical based off of a median figure than it is when based off of a mean. You use median income if you want a sense of how much money a "typical person" earns as opposed to how much the entire population earns collectively. But neither median nor mean will tell you anything at all about the shape of the distribution. And yes, as dragonwriter points out, your own link clearly s…

You're probably right that Ed was referring to the mean. However, Real Median Income was only $29k in 2008 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEPAINUSA672N

While Real Mean Income was $42k https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MAPAINUSA672N

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#180

Post by sand500 »

Kluny wrote: post #174
greedo wrote: post #28

When I was younger, I worked at a McDonalds in SoCal. Almost all the employees were white teenagers. The managers were white as well. We didn't make much, just a bit above minimum wage, but we were all mostly high-school students or college students working in the summer to pay tuition. This went on until around 1984 or so, when it became much harder to hire this demographic. It wasn't as cool to work at fast food, a…

I'm not in the states, but if I had a high school age kid I think I'd do anything I could to get them a better summer job than McD's. The money isn't the point - they're going to end up competing with adults for real jobs at some point, and the more high quality items they can get on a resume, the better their chances. Middle class kids legit can't afford to work in fast food because they need to spend their school y…

>Middle class kids legit can't afford to work in fast food because they need to spend their school years doing something more valuable than that.

I agree fully. Especially once you get to college, you need to start looking for internships and having more things on your resume makes you that more competitive.

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