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Visual Studio 2017 Launch [video]

launch.visualstudio.com

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Re: Visual Studio 2017 Launch [video]

#171
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately the printed logs only show what has been downloaded, not what is currently downloading. I know - that's not very helpful in this case. It would be really useful to see the more detailed logs, which are stored in the %TEMP% folder. It might be that it's not hung at all - if it's a really large file that's being downloaded. If you're willing to mail me at tims@microsoft.com, I'd be happy to work with you…

Thanks for your reply. It helped me get past the problem. I want to the %TEMP% folder and looked at dd_setup_2017??.log and saw that it last executed: Running: C:\Windows\SysWOW64\\WindowsPowerShell\v1.0\powershell.exe with parameters: -NoLogo -NoProfile -ExecutionPolicy Unrestricted -InputFormat None -Command ... I then went to Task Manager and noticed the powershell.exe command hanging with 0% cpu consumed. I remem…

Great - so glad that you're up and running. Thanks for the update. We'll take this back and see if we can repro this in-house.

Re: Visual Studio 2017 Launch [video]

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi Xorblurb :) I'm a dev on the "IDE team" :) We've actually done a huge amount of work investigating and addressing perf issues and working to create an architecture that can scale well. 64bits is not a panacea. And if we had simply moved to that, most people would find that their IDE was using much more ram AND behaving more sluggishly. We decided to invest our energies in work that would actually benefit the vast…

I'm sure you carefully evaluated the pro and cons and that for now the best option for customers, also maybe given the state of your code (I've got no idea if you have problems in that area or not, but hypothetically this is the kind of thing that could have an impact) and your resources and what you want to do with such resources, is to stick to 32-bits. Because, well, you did stick to 32-bits, and it does not suck…

> but hypothetically this is the kind of thing that could have an impact

It's not hypothetical :) We've measured, and moving to 64bits is a serious issue and would directly affect many customers who could not take the RAM hit.

> But I also "know", and you also maybe secretly "know", that you will eventually move to 64-bits

At some point we probably will. but it certainly isn't now. We have ample information on the types of machines that people use for development and we've measured extensively the different approaches that are possible. Right now 64bits would be a bad decision, and going the multi-process route turned out to be quite good.

> I mean come on, even iPhone programs are 64-bits now.

That's not a reason to move. We should move to 64bits if it delivers a quality improvement and does not dramatically degrade the experience for many customers. That's not what would be the case today.

> There seems to be some people in the IDE team who believe that a 32-bits only IDE is a feature and not a bug, including for reasons as fun as because it crashes sooner in case of memory leaks...

To be clear. There are zero people on the IDE that think this. The IDE team has to deal with the reality of the situation that there are humongous solutions, and very resource constrained machines. And we've been hearing from huge numbers of developers that they absolutely do not want memory requirements to go up. Just moving to 64bits is extremely problematic. As i've already mentioned that can easily double the memory requirements for many components in VS. That's going to make VS2017 a complete non-starter for many customers.

We do not haphazardly make changes "just because". We measure measure measure, and we're loathe to do anything that we've got enormous real data on on how negative the impact could be.

The approach we've taken has actually extremely improved throughput, scaling and latency, all while actually decreasing memory usage. We're going to continue making the changes that support those goals. If/when we can have a 64 bit architecture that supports those same needs, and gives an acceptable impact on the vast majority of user machines, then we can move there.

Re: Visual Studio 2017 Launch [video]

#173
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But, to repeat another comment I made below, are you satisfied with this solution? Would you expect to have to go to a package manager to use tuples in python? The power of .net, and of visual basic in particular was its simplicity. What I am seing is Microsoft going into the opposite direction, with an ever more fractured ecosystem, .net, .net core, .net portable and .net standard running in parallel. Asp.net and as…

> are you satisfied with this solution? Yes. This approach allows for far more interoperability in this space. Instead of having language features be locked into specific compilers/toolsets. You mentioned 'simplicity' and we've traded off one sort of simplicity for another. The approach you would like (which we used in the past) used to not be simple for the customer that wanted the scenarios to work that we're enabl…

Actually I tried using that nuget package on VS2015 but it doesn't seem to work. Is VS2015 support C# only?

Re: Visual Studio 2017 Launch [video]

#174

Its a great sense of relief to finally ship this product, we really hope folks give it a try and join our live keynote which is streaming now at http://launch.visualstudio.com

One complaint....the installer doesn't seem to show required disk space per component....with the features I've chose the install is 40 GB!!! I don't have nearly that room on my SSD but that's where I want it, but there's no way of knowing if I can pare my install down to fit in what I do have!

Add and remove a component and look at the total in each. The difference is the component's size.

Re: Visual Studio 2017 Launch [video]

#175
post #58

Its a great sense of relief to finally ship this product, we really hope folks give it a try and join our live keynote which is streaming now at http://launch.visualstudio.com

As a newcomer to .net I was really confused by the lacking refactoring support in Visual Studio (yes, things we spoiled Java brats take for granted like extract method, extract class, move to separate file etc). Is this available in VS 2017? Edit: and live unit testing! I was looking forward to that until I found out it was only available in the enterprise version. (And yes, here you have an edge on Java anyway I thi…

There are many refactorings already and if you want more you can invest in Resharper or CodeRush.

Re: Visual Studio 2017 Launch [video]

#176

Where did the ISO:s go? Please give us something with a known hash. I attempted to create the offline installer [1] but the vs_community.exe just silently quit after some mintues, having downloaded only some certificates. The custom download idea is easily planted with malware and all those bad things. Also, please consider upgrading from SHA-1. > We understand that a lot of customers want an offline installer for Vi…

A few quick thoughts on the topic of ISOs, to give you all a little extra context. 1. Visual Studio 2017 is a huge product, because we support so many types of development: from Android to UWP to C++ to Unity to Linux. If we were to still offer a 'full' install, it would come in at over 50GB. That's one huge ISO image! 2. We surveyed hundreds of people during the previews and RCs, and people told us that they had his…

Tim.. in this day and age of broadband and terabyte drives, 50GB file size is a non issue. A 50GB file can be downloaded while I am having lunch, during the day while I am working or overnight and it's available the next time. No rush.

- During the installation, the installer can download the smaller needed updates. SQL Server installation does that.

- A company can download the 50GB file once only and put it on a network drive and the developers can install it from there. It saved bandwidth for the company instead of each dev downloading the same bits over and over.

- What about the machines that are not connected to the Internet? You mentioned there are ways around this.

I am fine with none ISO's but I wanted to post the counterarguments.

Re: Visual Studio 2017 Launch [video]

#177

I've used Visual Studio for many years. Visual Studio 5.0 was very responsive. Visual Studio 2015 is not as responsive. Nowadays it seemes a bit bloated, even after disabling unused plugins and features. Switched to CLion and Rider, which are not known for their speed, but feel more responsible than VS to me. That and a more affordable price and cross-platform support.

There's so much productivity features in VS there's no excuse to invest in a faster machine. Or add more memory. Memory is cheap.
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