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Men not at work: Why so many men aged 25 to 54 are not working (2016)

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Re: Men not at work: Why so many men aged 25 to 54 are not working (2016)

#171

Post by dv_dt »

NumberSix wrote: post #15

The explanation is that the government massages unemployment figures to make the economy look better than it is. The government has been doing this for decades, under Republicans and Democrats, liberals and conservatives. Unemployment is one of the most widely watched and therefor political numbers; anyone who is in power wants it to look as good as possible. One of the tactics to make the official unemployment rates…

This view really bothers me. The generally reported "unemployment" figure in the media does have the problems you mention. But the US Gov't through Bureau of Labor Statistics puts out all the numbers you say are being hidden. More numbers than a typical person has time to consume in it's entirety.

They're just not termed "unemployment", it's labor participation rate or sometimes U-7: https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000

or other flavors: https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t12.htm

Now I'd agree it is a terrible shame that political and business news media almost completely ignore any introspection in the labor stats of this area.

Re: Men not at work: Why so many men aged 25 to 54 are not working (2016)

#172

Post by tonyarkles »

thrownblown wrote: post #21
rudrigu wrote: post #10

"... or the wife works while the man take care of kids" Then wifey starts seeing hubby as a sexless entity --- sort of like the son she never gave birth to --- and loses attraction for him. "... it isn't a gender thing. It is a money thing" Humans spent millennia as hunter-gatherers. Men hunted, women gathered. Men protected and provided, women nurtured the children. If women provide and protection is provided by the…

In my marriage, I bring home the bacon with a small SaaS and the wife is in graduate school. We split the raising of our child 50-50. I like it just fine. She doesn't. She's admittedly jealous of how much time I spend with my son, she resents having to continue on her career path and not being able to be a stay-t-home mom. She doesn't understand why I would rather raise my son than work a real programming job. We are…

Sorry to hear about your divorce. And I know it's painful and you may not want to talk about it, but something stuck out at me, and if you'd like to elaborate I'd be very interested in hearing more:

> she resents having to continue on her career path and not being able to be a stay-t-home mom

If you're already covering the majority of the household income with the SaaS while your wife is in grad school... why does she have to continue grad school and her career path?

Re: Men not at work: Why so many men aged 25 to 54 are not working (2016)

#173

Post by dukeluke »

PKop wrote: post #126
20160226 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't fight biology. Women are hardwired to look for men with resources or the ability to get them. It comes down to whether a man can provide the woman with a safe and clean place to have her babies. In the past, this signal has taken the form of physical strength, number of slaves, land, goats, whatever. Today, it's jobs and/or money. Then add a layer of the instinctive hunger for status within any social speci…

Not sure why getting downvoted. To dismiss out of hand thousands of years of evolution and think the last 50+ years of modern societal change can completely counteract biological forces is.. wishful thinking? I mean, this explanation is at least as good as any other speculation in this thread.

Many people who fight for social equality between the sexes also believe that all psychological differences between the sexes are cultural, not biological. The post above directly opposes that viewpoint, and thus got downvoted.

Personally, I don't agree with their belief. We can acknowledge differences between the sexes, yet maintain equal opportunity for those who want to oppose the norm.

Re: Men not at work: Why so many men aged 25 to 54 are not working (2016)

#174

Post by dukeluke »

freshflowers wrote: post #132
jokoon wrote: post #2

I've started some treatment recently, and for some reason I immediately started dating and looking for mates again. I quickly realized how difficult it is. You can't find women unless you have a job, while women have made outstanding progress in education and the workforce, and for some reason they have a hard time dating people who have a less comfortable situation than themselves. I don't want to ride the whole men…

> now that the tables have turned, women might need to make a compromise Most of us here on HN work in the tech industry, with its notorious sexism and underrepresentation problems. So let's get real here. To claim that the tables have turned reeks of the same claim to victimhood that the straight white christian men that voted for Trump use to justify their crap. You claim you don't want to right the "whole mensrigh…

I'm in the US. Women have every incentive to get a STEM degree, given the fact that nearly every major tech company has an affirmative action hiring process. But guess what? Women are choosing to get other degrees. It's not sexist to have some differences between the sexes as long as there's an equal opportunity.

Re: Men not at work: Why so many men aged 25 to 54 are not working (2016)

#175

Post by dukeluke »

hprotagonist wrote: post #115
dukeluke wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The evolutionary strategies are different between the genders, mostly because the biologically expensive act of growing a child for months and raising it for years means women need to be more selective towards their mates.

I pretty much regard "well, sexual pressures on evolution!" to be the biologist's cop-out answer when they don't actually know what's going on. I am male, and I would not want to date a woman who spends all day watching TV and nothing else, either.

Are you suggesting there isn't a difference in reproductive strategy between men and women? Edit: to those downvoting me, read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_mating_strategies

Re: Men not at work: Why so many men aged 25 to 54 are not working (2016)

#176

Post by throwaway729 »

pm90 wrote: post #114
codingdave wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your edit is right... your view on this is clearly heavy with your personal situation. But the bigger perspective is that for a relationship to work, both sides need to contribute. Whether the old-fashioned way where the man works while the wife take care of kids, or both work, or the wife works while the man take care of kids, or something completely different... the point is that both sides need to contribute. Take…

Well, a few generations ago, Men were OK with being in that kind of relationships. In fact, it was a culturally enforced value that the "Man should pay for everything" and it seemed to work fine. I agree with your premise that unequal incomes (especially if they are glaring) can be a significant barrier to relationships. But what if e.g. the woman makes enough for the both of them, and all she is looking for in a par…

> and it seemed to work fine

It worked well unless you were a woman with ambitions outside of the kitchen and bedroom. In that case, it was living hell and maybe you'd get luck with a world war.

Slavery worked fine too, unless you were a slave.

Re: Men not at work: Why so many men aged 25 to 54 are not working (2016)

#177

Post by pault »

dang wrote: post #119
dandersh wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The results of the recent election were driven by inefficiencies in the American electoral system, such as the electoral college, gerrymandered districts that result in Republicans holding more seats than their vote totals would suggest, etc. The "skills gap" is largely a result of the actions of employers. There is disdain for on the job training for easily learnable, high access jobs such as waitstaff, cashiers, et…

> Middle America's stubborn refusal to move forward This is a form of name-calling, which the site guidelines ask you not to do: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html .

I vouched for GP because they seem to have removed the name-calling.

Re: Men not at work: Why so many men aged 25 to 54 are not working (2016)

#178

Post by dominotw »

dukeluke wrote: post #170
bobbytherobot wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are all fair points. My point wasn't that any man can simply roll up and get the high paying job and it's never been the case. Many men would have been rejected just based on the color of their skin or because they had a Jewish last name. By and large, men aren't being denied access to an interview simply based on their gender. If we go back a few decades, women were denied access to an interview simply based o…

That may have once been the case, but not anymore. Almost all companies have some sort of affirmative action hiring process that is rigged against white men. I see tons of job postings where women and minorities are "strongly urged to apply." That's kind of wording makes it sound like a white man would not be considered for the position.

There is no better time to be a woman in Tech from a hiring perspective. Two of my female classmates from college who are more or less the same as me ( a male ) are inundated with offers from top tech companies in the valley, not even exaggerating. Meanwhile, it would be a minor miracle if recruiters even call me back.

there are other issues like pervasive culture of sexual harassment in tech but getting hired is not one of them.

Re: Men not at work: Why so many men aged 25 to 54 are not working (2016)

#179

Post by lnanek2 »

dang wrote: post #77
tornadoboy55 wrote: post #56

The problem is that when a 45yr old man dates a 25yr old girl all the women rabble and call him a pig, but when a woman will only date a man who 'can provide' its 'only natural'. You see the same issue crop up in tons of things. They tried to ban 'lad mags' in the U.K, but there was no talk of banning so-called kitchen romances (the shitty paperback stuff middle-adged moms love to buy in the supermarket). Iceland tri…

If you want a decent dialog you need to practice decent dialog yourself. That begins with dropping weaponized generalities like "feminist outrage" and "Women of the West have succeeded in perpetually shaming men" (edit: and, of course, the same the other way around). Every side in divisive arguments lobs such weapons at each other. We all know exactly what those leads to on the internet: more of the same, only worse.…

I don't think your censorship and invoking the site's authority to shut down conversations because you don't agree contributes to thoughtful discussion.

Re: Men not at work: Why so many men aged 25 to 54 are not working (2016)

#180

Post by [deleted] »

dukeluke wrote: post #47
randomdata wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Besides, education has never been more accessible. One can sit down at their home computer – or one freely provided by a local library – and gain skills, across a variety of professions, that can make them highly marketable. These people aren't sitting at home watching TV because they lack education. They lack education for the same reason they are sitting at home, which is a much more complex topic, and not solved b…

You act like lower-class "uneducated" men _should_ be unable to get a job. That's a bit messed up in my opinion. At a time of unparalleled wealth, all classes should be prospering. Also, I say "education" in quotes because today in an age where anyone can learn anything on the internet, a lack of degree does not mean a lack of education. A degree just shows you're willing to be compliant and follow an arbitrary educa…

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