Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple’s Devices Lose Luster in American Classrooms

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 335 posts

Re: Apple’s Devices Lose Luster in American Classrooms

#171

Post by bubblethink »

bitmapbrother wrote: post #134
bubblethink wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what's the point of that ? Why not buy any laptop if you want to run linux ? If all you are worried about is cost, a thinkpad from a couple gens ago will cost about as much, and will do a lot more than a chromebook with a shitty processor and possibly soldered ram + hard drive.

To have the benefits of ChromeOS full time and the option to use Linux part time.

What are the benefits of ChromeOS compared to standard GNU/Linux ? The main benefits are 1) Better security model and updates 2) Easier to use. 1) Goes out of the window once you flip that developers switch. Not to mention crouton/vm/dual-boot etc. are fine for mucking around. You can't use that in any sane way if you have to deploy and maintain hundreds of machines for a school. Regarding 2), I can't comment on usability since I haven't used ChromeOS, but I don't think there's going to be a world of difference compared to a modern distro.

Re: Apple’s Devices Lose Luster in American Classrooms

#172

Post by antfarm »

chjohasbrouck wrote: post #92
skookumchuck wrote: post #52

Tablets are great for media consumption. I don't understand how anyone can use them for creation, though. On my desk is the biggest screen I can afford, and a full size keyboard, and I use it all when doing work. As for helping kids learn, I just cannot see how a tablet will help in the classroom.

Completely agree. I take this one step further and say tablets are probably handicapping your kids in the home. Having no tablets or smartphones available during the PC revolution forced most of us here to default to exactly the correct set of tools for maximum learning and efficiency: a keyboard, a mouse, a full-size monitor, sitting at a desk, with a full computer with some kind of (more-or-less) exposed desktop op…

When you teach e.g. basic astronomy or anatomy, you want students to explore the solar system or human body interactively, not their computers.

Computer use in schools is not only about learning to use the computer. One of the great features of the iPad is that once you start an app, it becomes a single-purpose device that just works.

I totally agree with your last point.

Re: Apple’s Devices Lose Luster in American Classrooms

#173

Post by antfarm »

eon1 wrote: post #31
dpark wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's sad, but Apple has completely lost it at the low end. When was Apple ever targeting (or winning) the low end? Apple was never the "value proposition" for affordable devices.

I seem to remember them flooding schools with low cost grey iMacs called eMacs (though you might have some trouble googling that).

Not so hard: https://www.google.de/search?q=emac

Re: Apple’s Devices Lose Luster in American Classrooms

#174

Post by usrusr »

masterleep wrote: post #39
Merad wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It blows my mind that Apple has basically put no effort at all into supporting the multi user business/education market. Our company rolled out our first LOB mobile app last year. Only six devices are involved, but they're basically in use 24/7 and are handed off at shift changes. The amount of hoops we had to jump through were absurd both in terms of device management setup and adding some features to the app to mak…

It really is absurd, isn't it? Multi user iPads would be incredibly useful in the home as well.

Would it help making households buy a second iPad?

Even if it is not the main reason, it sure helps keeping the priority low. But the iPad is an offshot of a phone and those are so personal (the real personal computers, just think of the place where people water-damage their phones) that it would be questionable wether spending "UI bandwidth" on user switching would be worth it even if implementation was free.

Re: Apple’s Devices Lose Luster in American Classrooms

#175

Post by antfarm »

dpark wrote: post #16
masterleep wrote: post #8

It's sad, but Apple has completely lost it at the low end. The value proposition just isn't there any more. This goes for iOS as well as Macs.

> It's sad, but Apple has completely lost it at the low end. When was Apple ever targeting (or winning) the low end? Apple was never the "value proposition" for affordable devices.

These Apple web pages from 1998/99, just around the introduction of the original iMac, show that around the time they were making quite an effort to regain their leading position as suppliers of schools and universities.

https://web.archive.org/web/19980509035831/http://www.apple....

https://web.archive.org/web/19990826061209/http://apple.com/...

Re: Apple’s Devices Lose Luster in American Classrooms

#176

Post by leadingthenet »

warcher wrote: post #155
exodust wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends what is being taught. Electric whiteboards, displays and projectors can provide obvious benefits and time-saving for things like updating values, neatness, illustration, demonstration. Ever noticed when a lecturer writes a sentence on the chalk board, the only sound in the room is the sound of chalk? That isn't efficient use of time.

Most professors, you really gotta slow them down. This is their life's work and they know it bottom to top. If you let them run at their natural clip, you're gonna miss stuff. Making them write it down is great for that. If you let them use slides, you gotta ask them questions and break their rhythm or they'll just roll right over you.

Thank you, somebody other than me finally said it. I hate lecture slides with passion, so much so that I barely even go to lectures anymore. I mean, what's the point if all they're going to do is read them out loud? I can do that at home.

Re: Apple’s Devices Lose Luster in American Classrooms

#177

Post by Insanity »

decasteve wrote: post #19

I replaced my kids' iPads because of the awful hunched posture it precipitates (as shown in the 2nd picture in the article). Also, after an initial enthusiasm for iMovie and Swift Playgrounds wore off, they gravitated towards the more distracting apps and games, youtube and netflix, etc. Having them sit upright, with good posture, at a desktop computer puts them in a different frame of mind when it comes to what they…

I agree with this pretty much, though a good posture is often not really present with using a computer either. Still better than the hunched posture, but you should pay attention to the ergonomics then of how your children are sitting (not slouching) in front of the computer.

It does kind of fascinate me how children today are so used to technology. My youngest relative is almost two years old, but he can find "youtube" on the iPad and can click on the peppa pig videos that he likes to watch. Or when he is in the mood for another app that tells stories, he can click on that.

Maybe I just hugely underestimate children, but it did surprise me that he can find the apps he wants.

I hope that when raising my own children, I can give them a broader picture of computing in the way that you are doing.

Re: Apple’s Devices Lose Luster in American Classrooms

#178

Post by ux-app »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #166
dpark wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for clarifying. I agree that Chromebooks are not the ideal learning device for coding. I was thinking general schooling and glossed over your earlier comment about teaching coding. I think they can probably work there, but you're right that a "real" computer is a better choice for that.

I would expand coding to include general computer use. Sure, you can teach biology or physics or English using whatever device is most convenient. But if you're trying to teach the workings and use of computers (i.e. what most people will have on computer classes), using iPads and Chromebooks is teaching them lies that come from user-hostile pseudoabstractions.

> using iPads and Chromebooks is teaching them lies that come from user-hostile pseudoabstractions

Absolutely. Most 12 year old kids don't know about file size units. Relative file sizes, converting between units etc. There's so much incidental learning that occurs too. The other day i was discussing file sizes with a student and we observed that there was a difference between a file's reported size vs size on disk. This led to a great little segue about physical disk structure, tracks, sectors and clusters. The boy was fascinated with some lower level detail. All that learning would have been lost if we were using a gimped cloud based FS.

Re: Apple’s Devices Lose Luster in American Classrooms

#179

Post by makomk »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #157
blipmusic wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so nice to read after having seen my sister's children receive laptops at school. No one was actually giving them any system knowledge. No programming, no "how does a computer work, what is a file...", no support/teaching on how software can help when e.g. writing an essay. Nothing. They were carrying 10+ kg (no joke) in their bags every day because of course they were forced to bring the (heavy) laptop to ev…

I'd like to see RPis in schools - they're cheap, just $5 or $10 for the wireless models. Providing the accessories required to use it is more costly, but kids can't really hack screens and $3 keyboards. RPi's are ideal for learning basic computer usage and programming, IMO. Slow though, but the RPi 3 should be fast enough for that too.

The $5 and $10 models are limited to one per customer and out of stock much of the time - not something you can equip a classroom with.

Re: Apple’s Devices Lose Luster in American Classrooms

#180

Post by ux-app »

rayalez wrote: post #115
ux-app wrote: post #13

I'm a HS teacher. I was so happy when my school finally phased out iPads as the designated device for our year 7 students. It's such a rubbish device for content creation. The touchscreen is a POS for anything other than web browsing and casual games. Teaching coding, image manipulation, file manipulation was utterly painful or impossible. Typing on them is beyond painful and of the hundreds of students I taught, few…

You're probably right about the schools, but I want to disagree with you about content creation in general. I'm using my iPad for painting, writing, video creation every day. It is extremely useful and convenient for my purposes. It has a specific niche, and might not be for everyone, but I very often prefer it for specific tasks. At this point, writing(in Editorial) for me is pretty much as convenient as writing on…

Yes you're absolutely right, the IPad is great for creative/artistic work. My comment reflects my own bias. I'm an IT teacher so I'm teaching computing fundamentals, coding, game dev, web dev etc, and for those activities an iPad/Chromebook is not up to the job.
Post reply on HN