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High-speed rail taking shape even as opponents seek to kill it

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Re: High-speed rail taking shape even as opponents seek to kill it

#171

Post by Justin_K »

capkutay wrote: post #163
datahack wrote: post #106

If I had known that they were going to run this through the Central Valley instead of down the coast where it belongs I never would have voted for it. It should have gone straight from la to Oakland or emeryville, turned and gone straight to Sacramento. Instead we have a convoluted mess of rail connections that take people places they don't even want to go (no offense to Bakersfield buts it's hardly a holiday destina…

It is really disappointing that it doesn't at least go near the coast. I doubt they'd be able to eminent domain coastal lands now that california homeowners are so politically powerful now, but they at least could have tried to build it along the 101 so it was driving/bus distance to the coast. If you want to take a beautiful coastal train ride, nothing beats the Amtrak from LA to San Diego.

Which takes longer than a drive in traffic.

Re: High-speed rail taking shape even as opponents seek to kill it

#172

Post by ghaff »

k_sh wrote: post #168
TYPE_FASTER wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One advantage of rail is you can put a station in the middle of a metro area, removing travel time to the airport.

One major problem the HSR faces is the land acquisition to get into central LA... last I read, the plan was to terminate in Bakersfield.

From what I've read, they've decided to focus on Bakersfield to points north first (whereas they were originally focused on the southern part of the route). Presumably the project pretty much has to complete the entire Phase 1 route (at minimum) at some point to avoid being a complete disaster. (There are doubtless benefits to connecting Fresno to SF but they almost certainly don't justify the project.)

Re: High-speed rail taking shape even as opponents seek to kill it

#174

Post by pm24601 »

datahack wrote: post #106

If I had known that they were going to run this through the Central Valley instead of down the coast where it belongs I never would have voted for it. It should have gone straight from la to Oakland or emeryville, turned and gone straight to Sacramento. Instead we have a convoluted mess of rail connections that take people places they don't even want to go (no offense to Bakersfield buts it's hardly a holiday destina…

Seriously - trains should go where the people are. The people are in the central valley. Between Santa Barbara and Santa Cruz the population is very light and the terrain is very difficult.

It wasn't until the 20th century that access to the Big Sur area was possible. And even today for over a hundred miles highway 1 is the only access.

Fresno - 509,000 people Bakersfield - 363,000 people

The first segment connects 1 million people with a high quality dedicated rail connection. Take a trip on the San Joaguin train - that train slow as it is, is very popular.

Next take a look at a map. Los Angeles is due south of Lake Tahoe. So going to central valley is not a detour or some other political game.

The real political mess is the choice of Pacheco Pass (hwy 152) rather than the Altamont Pass.(I-580) Once again Altamont Pass - a lot of people. hwy 152 - crickets in comparison.

Re: High-speed rail taking shape even as opponents seek to kill it

#175

Post by djrogers »

k_sh wrote: post #167
ghaff wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I tend to agree, on the right routes, planes can easily run on an hourly shuttle schedule. As happens for some city pairs. And we're one attack away from potentially having increased security for trains.

Delta and Southwest both run between SF and LA nearly, if not, hourly.

Not just SFO and LAX either, you have OAK, SJC and SFO up here, and ONT, BUR, LAX, LGB, and SNA down south. There are flights between any of those combinations many many times per day, and the locations involved are often much more convenient than the HSR depots will be.

Re: High-speed rail taking shape even as opponents seek to kill it

#176

Post by pm24601 »

milesrout wrote: post #140
shiny wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another potential concern is that it runs through some good farmland, which CA has some of the best of in the world. I would love to have an HSR along the coast however. When I was in Taiwan it was amazing being able to get to the bottom of the island in a couple hours.

>some good farmland, which CA has some of the best of in the world. Is that a joke? California is a terrible place to be farming. Farming in California is only viable because farmers are allowed unfettered access to water, depriving it from residents (who are told they should turn off the water in the shower while farmers are pouring untold millions of gallons on crops that could be grown somewhere actually suited to…

No its not a joke. Central Valley used to be a big marshy area https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacramento%E2%80%93San_Joaquin...

Re: High-speed rail taking shape even as opponents seek to kill it

#177

Post by tehabe »

prawn wrote: post #84
tehabe wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

30 minutes in advance for a train? Sometimes I arrive a minutes in advance and just enter the train before it is continuing its journey. Happens when my connecting train had a delay.

In Switzerland, where the train schedule is stunningly efficient, you can do this very reliably. Check in and security procedures make this impossible with airports. Unfortunately, this is also an issue with international high speed trains (TGV) where there are queues and checks.

In Germany the issue is, there is enough money to plan and build motorways but not for train routes. Consequence is, that many routes are over capacity and cargo, local, and long distance trains share one track. The result is that one delayed train creates a wave of delays through the entire network.

Re: High-speed rail taking shape even as opponents seek to kill it

#178

Post by djrogers »

TYPE_FASTER wrote: post #47
sand500 wrote: post #38

As I see it, the price of rail tickets will be pretty high.whats stopping the price of flights from being halved in the next couple of decades and killing this train service too?

One advantage of rail is you can put a station in the middle of a metro area, removing travel time to the airport.

Los Angeles and the Bay Area don't have a single metro area to put one in the middle of - that's why there are 5 airports in SoCal and 3 up north that all have frequent flights between them.

Re: High-speed rail taking shape even as opponents seek to kill it

#179

Post by djrogers »

jwatte wrote: post #153
klinquist wrote: post #148

One thing that nobody has mentioned - autonomous cars. Close to the time this will be completed, I assume I'll be able to sit in my vehicle and be shuttled from SF to LA in 5 hrs in the comfort of my own vehicle.

The car is slower, and an order of magnitude less efficient. And efficiency matters -- there's a limit to how much energy can be sustainably spent, and if transportation is more efficient, we get to do more other things.

> The car is slower

Only in theory - current estimates are that by the time stops, noise abatement, track changes, etc have all been factored in, the CAHSR trains will average under 100MPh - closer to 80, which is easily achievable on i5 by a car.

Re: High-speed rail taking shape even as opponents seek to kill it

#180

Post by ghaff »

coredog64 wrote: post #170
nhf wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get your point, but that's a slightly inconvenient comparison. Shenzhen - Beijing is ~1200 miles, SF - NY is ~2600 miles. At the highest passenger rail speeds out there, the trip would probably end up being 12-18 hours.

There are several hundred miles of very tall mountains in the way. Unless someone is contemplating a century long project to dig a tunnel, those miles will be taken at a crawl.

Heck, even the geography between NYC and Chicago--which would be potentially interesting based on crow flies distance and amount of travel--almost certainly makes HSR not viable.
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