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The open-office trend is destroying the workplace (2014)

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Re: The open-office trend is destroying the workplace (2014)

#171

Post by twothamendment »

Ralfp wrote: post #103
facepalm wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The place you are looking for exists: it is called home :-)

That may fly if you are single. Otherwise everybody will assume that if you are at home, you are here to go shopping, take care of kids, let in guests, cook meals, do cleaning, take out trash, etc. ect, and lets not start about other household members distracting you with loud noises.

Working from home with a family can be great - it takes a little training. I'm 100% remote at home in a spare bedroom. My youngest is 5 and even he knows not to burst in the room and start talking without waiting for me to talk to him first. Maybe I'm just in the middle of a thought or more often working with another dev, but family can be taught to respect the work space in a home. "Goodbye, I'm going to work" seems to kick it off well.

I also had to explain money to my kids. All that stuff they enjoy - we only have it because I can sit here and work. Once they understood there was a reason I wouldn't drop everything to play Mario Kart all day - life is good. That doesn't mean I can't take a break to have lunch with the family and take a break for a few laps of racin.

I find that it is easier to control the distractions at home than it is at work. People at work have work related things that they think are important, but aren't really. It is much harder to train them than it is my family.

Re: The open-office trend is destroying the workplace (2014)

#172

Post by twothamendment »

rm999 wrote: post #32

The best work setup I've ever had by far was not private offices or cubicles (and definitely not an open office); it was a hybrid where our team of 3-5 people sat in a large private office. This increased collaboration while enforcing respect. It allowed our team to create a work culture democratically (how do we arrange seating? what noise levels are ok?) that simply isn't possible in an open seating arrangement. I…

This is my second favorite environment - right behind working from home.

Re: The open-office trend is destroying the workplace (2014)

#173

Post by dethswatch »

davidmr wrote: post #55

I think we've lost the war. I was even asked to meet with my company's architects and designers about a new space we were building out. I basically spent an hour telling them in every different form I could that what I wanted was a place I could go where people could find me, but they would have to knock on a door and open it to talk to me, and these people looked at me like I was from fucking Mars. They'd never hear…

The kitchen will be about 1 meter away from your workspace. You'll enjoy the overly loud conversations, beeping of microwaves, coffee makers, dishwashing, and the delightful smells of bkreafast, brunch, lunch, and the rest.

Re: The open-office trend is destroying the workplace (2014)

#174

Post by ams6110 »

davidmr wrote: post #55

I think we've lost the war. I was even asked to meet with my company's architects and designers about a new space we were building out. I basically spent an hour telling them in every different form I could that what I wanted was a place I could go where people could find me, but they would have to knock on a door and open it to talk to me, and these people looked at me like I was from fucking Mars. They'd never hear…

What kind of space was planned for the managers/executives? Offices? Would not be surprised. That's how it went with the open office plans I've worked in. Managers and directors all get offices. Everyone else gets a desk in a fishbowl, maybe with some "focus rooms" that are supposed to make up for it.

Re: The open-office trend is destroying the workplace (2014)

#175

Post by YZF »

vacri wrote: post #169
YZF wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my first ever job my manager would always sort of deliberately look at his watch when I got in, which was anything between 9am and 1pm :) But otherwise we got along great. I think it was just his way of trying to teach me some of his values which unfortunately I didn't share ;) Usually if I came in at 1pm it's because I was at work until 1am the last night... Other than that job my other managers never cared. I've…

If you're happy working those kinds of moving shifts where you're there 'til the wee hours, leave a breadcrumb trail showing that you were working. A minor email; a message in a chat channel; a manual build that sends an email out to stakeholders. It'll softly remind folks that you were on the case. And if, heaven forbid, you ever get a stickler HR person, you can show them that trail.

It probably depends on the location/culture but I've never seen issues with that. I've also, as far as I recall, never signed a contract that specified hours/week or a particular schedule. I've worked with people who came in at 5am to beat rush hour and would leave early and people who came in much later and would stay late and anything in between. Tech workers' time is generally considered flexible which is why they don't usually get paid overtime either. If you're ever at a point where HR is looking at how many hours you "punched in" then there's probably other problems. I would say that if your value is measured by "hours" that would be a red flag already. Probably no shortage of workplaces like that but I wouldn't want to work there as long as I have choice.

EDIT: p.s. if it wasn't clear I no longer do the 1pm->1am schedule. That was when I was young with no other commitments. It's not the healthiest schedule ;) Now my hours are more conventional but still reasonably flexible. I work for a large tech company and no one cares when you come in or leave as long as the work gets done.

Re: The open-office trend is destroying the workplace (2014)

#176

Post by HillaryBriss »

davidmr wrote: post #55

I think we've lost the war. I was even asked to meet with my company's architects and designers about a new space we were building out. I basically spent an hour telling them in every different form I could that what I wanted was a place I could go where people could find me, but they would have to knock on a door and open it to talk to me, and these people looked at me like I was from fucking Mars. They'd never hear…

one of the best HN comments i've ever read, especially the last line.

i know it wouldn't have helped, but did you point anyone at Joel Spolsky's old blog post about designing an office for software development?

Re: The open-office trend is destroying the workplace (2014)

#177

Post by prodigal_erik »

maxxxxx wrote: post #162
randcraw wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then decorate your cube. Look at art or photos. There was style and personal expression in the workplace before the sterility of the open office factory floor killed it.

That feels more like a self-decorated prison cell. I think it's important to be able to look outside during the day.

That's a tough one. I want to see sun at some point but I don't want it in my monitor.

Re: The open-office trend is destroying the workplace (2014)

#178

Post by maxxxxx »

prodigal_erik wrote: post #177
maxxxxx wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That feels more like a self-decorated prison cell. I think it's important to be able to look outside during the day.

That's a tough one. I want to see sun at some point but I don't want it in my monitor.

It's perfectly possible to place a monitor in a window room so the sun is not a problem.

Re: The open-office trend is destroying the workplace (2014)

#179

Post by eli_gottlieb »

davidmr wrote: post #55

I think we've lost the war. I was even asked to meet with my company's architects and designers about a new space we were building out. I basically spent an hour telling them in every different form I could that what I wanted was a place I could go where people could find me, but they would have to knock on a door and open it to talk to me, and these people looked at me like I was from fucking Mars. They'd never hear…

>When I die and get to hell, there will be a Hermann Miller chair in an open office waiting for me. With free snacks and drinks in the kitchen.

You'll be allowed to wear headphones, and Hell will have a Slack channel, but instead of using the Slack channel, everyone will just walk over to your desk and talk to you.

While you're debugging.

Re: The open-office trend is destroying the workplace (2014)

#180

Post by closeparen »

ams6110 wrote: post #174
davidmr wrote: post #55

I think we've lost the war. I was even asked to meet with my company's architects and designers about a new space we were building out. I basically spent an hour telling them in every different form I could that what I wanted was a place I could go where people could find me, but they would have to knock on a door and open it to talk to me, and these people looked at me like I was from fucking Mars. They'd never hear…

What kind of space was planned for the managers/executives? Offices? Would not be surprised. That's how it went with the open office plans I've worked in. Managers and directors all get offices. Everyone else gets a desk in a fishbowl, maybe with some "focus rooms" that are supposed to make up for it.

At my employer, even the highest-level executives don't get offices. They just have a suspicious number of consecutive meetings in the same conference room.

Mid-level executives waste a massive amount of time "commuting" between conference rooms on the hour every hour.

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