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Just how smart is an octopus?

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Re: Just how smart is an octopus?

#171

Post by uep »

actsasbuffoon wrote: post #162
jacobush wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, since we were discussing different forms of suffering... They [the state, the company] effectively eat most of my soul and half of my conscious life. In return I get wages and spend them on police protection, medicine etc.

So you're saying it might be moral to eat the unemployed? They don't pay time or money to anyone, yet they still receive some basic level of access to infrastructure. They take more than they give, and that means killing them and eating them could be a viable way to make up the difference. That's before you get into the fact that we don't give animals a choice in the matter. They can't opt out of our protection and t…

A Modest Proposal by Jonathon Swift:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal

Are you familiar with it? Obviously, it's not quite the same, but this was the first thing that came to mind from your comment.

Re: Just how smart is an octopus?

#172

Post by MaxfordAndSons »

Pxtl wrote: post #94
jnbiche wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but a dog's got personality. Personality goes a long way.

For those who are confused, the above line is just quoting the movie Pulp Fiction.

Heh, was going to mention this. Funny how nobody expects inline pop culture references in HN discussions, so they're often just taken at face value.

Re: Just how smart is an octopus?

#173

Post by squidfood »

imjared wrote: post #156
komali2 wrote: post #64

Total anecdote here, but when I volunteered at our aquarium in Charleston, SC (amazing aquarium, go check it out), we had a problem where our flounder were vanishing from their tank. We suspected theft and so put a camera up in the back room. The next time flounder disappeared we checked the feed - one of our octopi was escaping from his tank that we thought we had already anti-octopus'd, climbing over the walls, bre…

I'm also a veteran of working at an aquarium and have heard this story before. Is it something you witnessed? I've wondered where this story came from: - http://belizeadventure.com/2013/08/octopus-facts/ - https://www.tonmo.com/threads/midnight-tank-escapes-fact-or-... Edit: this is not to call you out for you story, it's very possible that this happened at CHS aquarium, I'm just wondering the origins since it's such…

I heard this story in three different marine biology labs going back to the 1980s (prey type differed depending on location). All were "it happened a few years ago", it was "caught on camera back then" and no actual eyewitnesses who could attest to seeing the film.

Then again, I've also had to clean up a couple (witnessed) octopus escapes, though not with the full "got out, got prey, got back in." So they are at least somewhat prone to roaming.

Re: Just how smart is an octopus?

#174

Post by dgrealy »

komali2 wrote: post #64

Total anecdote here, but when I volunteered at our aquarium in Charleston, SC (amazing aquarium, go check it out), we had a problem where our flounder were vanishing from their tank. We suspected theft and so put a camera up in the back room. The next time flounder disappeared we checked the feed - one of our octopi was escaping from his tank that we thought we had already anti-octopus'd, climbing over the walls, bre…

Ha! I'd say it deserves the occasional fancy meal from that.

Re: Just how smart is an octopus?

#175

Post by rlonstein »

ch4s3 wrote: post #159
codehero wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pet pig owner here. Pigs are problem solvers. Pigs are optimizers. The following videos of my pig demonstrate this. Video 2: Pig is first learning the task. Video 3: Pig has slightly optimized the task. Video 1: Pig has mastered the task. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/37f48azh2bt4xk4/Wy3iHDMp1e?previe...

That's pretty excellent. For those who don't watch the videos, they feature a feeding device that must be spun to release food. Video 2 features the pig figuring out that spinning the wheel releases food, and by the last video, the pig is spinning the wheel numerous times to release several food drops before eating.

I was waiting for the pig to push all the balls out of the frame so that it could spin the feeding wheel without rooting through the balls.

Re: Just how smart is an octopus?

#176

Post by squidfood »

itp wrote: post #152
logfromblammo wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Octopus has three acceptable pluralizations in English. Octopuses is correct by English rules. Octopodes is correct by strict etymological Greek-origin rules. Octopi is correct by English's pseudo-Latin cognate rules. The latter means that any singular noun ending in a consonant and "-us" can be pluralized by chopping off the "-us" and appending an "-i" or "-ii", like alumnus, hippopotamus, virus, bacillus, hummus, l…

Except there is no single authority of the English language (as seen in other language academies). As I mentioned in another comment, you may fall into a prescriptivist or descriptivist camp, but there's no authority to which one can appeal for a single answer. Generally speaking, octopuses is preferred by most if not all well known dictionaries in modern usage, and the pseudo-Latin cognate has fallen out of favor. I…

The style guides to most scientific journals will assert "octopuses", so you're unlikely to get "octopi" past that collective editorial authority, in any case - the others are however deemed acceptable alternates in common use.

Re: Just how smart is an octopus?

#177

Post by [deleted] »

sdfjkl wrote: post #74
komali2 wrote: post #64

Total anecdote here, but when I volunteered at our aquarium in Charleston, SC (amazing aquarium, go check it out), we had a problem where our flounder were vanishing from their tank. We suspected theft and so put a camera up in the back room. The next time flounder disappeared we checked the feed - one of our octopi was escaping from his tank that we thought we had already anti-octopus'd, climbing over the walls, bre…

You're lucky all he wanted was to eat a flounder and then return peacefully to his tank instead of going full Dawn of the Planet of the Octopuses on you.

[deleted]

Re: Just how smart is an octopus?

#178

Post by ohyoutravel »

Falling3 wrote: post #140
overcast wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the key difference here is that dogs were bred for thousands of years, to be our companions, while pigs were bred as food. That's where it comes from.

In what way is that a meaningful distinction?

Because when one curates something for a specific purpose, it is sub optimal to use it contrary that purpose. In this case, dogs have specifically been domesticated to be companions for humans for something like 15,000 years. Humans specifically selected for specific behaviors and traits for dogs for them to be more compatible with humans. In the United States, dogs are used almost exclusively as pets and helper animals.

Pigs have never been domesticated in that way in large numbers and have always generally been used as food, or for limited other purposes, occasionally as pets.

I think this difference in lineage and purpose leads to a very meaningful distinction.

Re: Just how smart is an octopus?

#179

Post by strken »

Falling3 wrote: post #140
overcast wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the key difference here is that dogs were bred for thousands of years, to be our companions, while pigs were bred as food. That's where it comes from.

In what way is that a meaningful distinction?

I've been thinking about this recently.

In a society, people seem to taboo things which indicate a general lack of emotion toward other members of the society. With farm animals, there are social (and religious and legal!) rules around maintenance and slaughter, and farmers deal with large groups of animals, so the relationship between farmer and animal is one-to-many and doesn't leave much room for long term emotional bonds to form.

For working animals and pets, the bond is one-to-one, and involves working directly with the animal in question. The relationship with a working animal is much closer to the relationship with another human. Thus, killing a dog in a society where the role of a dog is to herd cattle makes you seem dangerous to the people around you, while killing a cow in a society where cows are food is explicitly sanctioned and not an indication that you might murder your co-workers.

Re: Just how smart is an octopus?

#180

Post by graedus »

overcast wrote: post #114
Pxtl wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great article on eating lobsters by the inimitable, late David Foster Wallace: http://www.gourmet.com/magazine/2000s/2004/08/consider_the_l...

Good lord, ten pages.

http://www.gourmet.com/magazine/2000s/2004/08/consider_the_l...

(For those who dislike clicking through 10 pages, or want to save to pocket or similar)

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