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Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC

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Re: Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC

#171

Post by wnevets »

bluetwo wrote: post #36

One of the problems with Net Neutrality is that techies (us) and the media have both had a hard time explaining it clearly. Meanwhile those opposed have been able to come up with analogies that while false and misleading, are easily understood. What is the best way to explain the concept that can be quickly understood by those that are non-technical?

> What is the best way to explain the concept that can be quickly understood by those that are non-technical?

Your electric bill.

Should your electric company be allowed to charge you or the manufacturer of more money to power ?

Re: Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC

#172

Post by hawski »

bluetwo wrote: post #36

One of the problems with Net Neutrality is that techies (us) and the media have both had a hard time explaining it clearly. Meanwhile those opposed have been able to come up with analogies that while false and misleading, are easily understood. What is the best way to explain the concept that can be quickly understood by those that are non-technical?

Prices for electricity depending on the brand of the manufacturer. For X dollars you can power Bosch, Philips and Electrolux. For additional XX dollars you can power Amica and Whirlpool products. If you have cheap noname brand toaster, sorry no service for you. or pay extra. We are sorry but we no longer support Samsung products in this plan, would you like to upgrade your plan?

Re: Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC

#173

Post by mr_spothawk »

croon wrote: post #121
hueving wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth noting that whenever there is a change of parties in control, the incumbent party is always going to lament the fact that it's the end of the world. Time will tell if the new FCC administration is actually bad for the consumer.

While I in many scenarios in theory could agree with you, this portrayal is very disingenous unless you think Net Neutrality is somehow bad for consumers, because going off party politics on these issues, this WILL be bad.

I think Net Neutrality is bad for consumers, because it entrenches dependance on eg. Comcast. Instead, if we'd just let Comcast do whatever it wants with its networks (yes, we have stupidly built a lot of laws/rules around network sharing, that enable nasty behavior by Comcast, et. al.), then they'd jack up the price for whatever they want and (in a handwaving way) we'd have a market for citizen built mesh-networks.

Those are great things.

as a further stretch of the imagination... Fuck Video Bandwidth... why are we encouraging more Netflix with Net Neutrality? Do we really want more television?

Fuck codifying anything about Comcast's business into legal frameworks (laws/regulations/etc...)... let's do what humans have done for many many thousands of years, and communicate among ourselves, instead of through the king's network.

And, to be sure, Comcast is King. Well, money is... Or we wouldn't be worried about FCC chair change-over.

/rant

[ edit - thanks for the down votes ]

Re: Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC

#174

Post by bdhess »

anigbrowl wrote: post #74
bdhess wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea of recess appointments is an anachronism in an age with instant digital communications and airplanes.

No it isn't. Congress is only in session part of the time. Lawmaking - as opposed to politicking - currently requires a quorum and that legislators actually go on the record with both arguments and votes. It's where the rubber of governance meets the road and politicians can't pander to all and sundry while shrugging off criticism by saying 'they misspoke' and so on, but must instead commit to some sort of position (…

It's hard to reconcile your logic with Hamilton's from Federalist #67:

The ordinary power of appointment is confined to the President and Senate JOINTLY, and can therefore only be exercised during the session of the Senate; but as it would have been improper to oblige this body to be continually in session for the appointment of officers and as vacancies might happen IN THEIR RECESS, which it might be necessary for the public service to fill without delay, the succeeding clause is evidently intended to authorize the President, SINGLY, to make temporary appointments "during the recess of the Senate, by granting commissions which shall expire at the end of their next session."

Given the joint nature of appointments, and that the legislature is a co-equal branch of government, it seems reasonable that if the Senate would prefer to remain permanently in session so as not to diminish its authority, it's within its right to do so. And that an executive trying to make a recess appointment in this case is exactly the sort of "regard[ing] rules as an obstruction to be got around" that you seem to be railing against.

Re: Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC

#175

Post by byuu »

creeble wrote: post #156
794CD01 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the average person paying 60 bucks a month for internet today while only using Facebook, Twitter, Gmail, and Netflix, this sounds like a great deal.

Exactly the problem.

Right, there are plenty of people who would be happy with basically Facebook and Gmail alone. And the cable companies will be more than happy to extract $40-$60 a month from granny that uses maybe 1GB of bandwidth from those two sites at best.

This puts say, Hacker News, in a very bad position.

As well as any new startup that wants to compete against the major players with billions of dollars.

Already there are people strong-armed into AT&T's DirecTV Now, which is zero-rated on AT&T's wireless network. With the pitiful bandwidth caps on mobile data, how can Netflix possibly compete with that?

Re: Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC

#176

Post by 794CD01 »

kitsy wrote: post #146
794CD01 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the average person paying 60 bucks a month for internet today while only using Facebook, Twitter, Gmail, and Netflix, this sounds like a great deal.

Until they want to click on a Facebook news article (or a Instagram image in Twitter or a GroupOn link in GMail) and Access Denied message.

Which will accelerate the move Facebook, Twitter, etc are already making to rehost all that content on their own servers to provide an "integrated experience" for their users.

Re: Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC

#177

Post by wmf »

paulmd wrote: post #169
TheCoelacanth wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only because they figured out that it's more profitable to charge the other side, and that has happened, for example, Comcast getting Netflix to pay them to not throttle their traffic.

Despite Netflix's attempt to glom on to the net neutrality movement, peering agreements are something entirely different and are not going away anytime soon. The early Internet functioned on a gentleman's handshake - you send traffic onto my network, I send traffic onto your network, over time the balance will mostly net out. The system operated on the presumption that everyone's traffic increased more or less in par…

That's one interpretation. Many ISPs are happy to peer with CDNs with no money changing hands because this saves money both for the ISP and the CDN. The larger the traffic, the more money saved by both sides.

Re: Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC

#178

Post by 794CD01 »

byuu wrote: post #175
creeble wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly the problem.

Right, there are plenty of people who would be happy with basically Facebook and Gmail alone. And the cable companies will be more than happy to extract $40-$60 a month from granny that uses maybe 1GB of bandwidth from those two sites at best. This puts say, Hacker News, in a very bad position. As well as any new startup that wants to compete against the major players with billions of dollars. Already there are peopl…

PSA: if you realize that reality "puts you in a bad position", take that as a hint to reconsider your position.

Re: Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC

#179

Post by dannyr »

hueving wrote: post #119
quasse wrote: post #32

I was recently at a conference in DC called "Transforming Communities: Broadband Goals for 2017 and Beyond" which was largely focused on public policy related to the lack of real broadband in America. Gigi Sohn, who is the counselor to the chairman of the FCC, spoke. She was very candid about the position of the FCC and the fact that she was finally able to speak her mind because this was going to be one of her last…

It's worth noting that whenever there is a change of parties in control, the incumbent party is always going to lament the fact that it's the end of the world. Time will tell if the new FCC administration is actually bad for the consumer.

You're equating as if this is just a regular President taking office.

Re: Tom Wheeler Resigns from the FCC

#180

Post by BurningFrog »

gnicholas wrote: post #162
chimeracoder wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There were a lot of concerns when Mr Wheeler took over and he greatly surprised everyone. Let's be patient and see what happens next. When Wheeler was nominated, there were some concerns that he wouldn't even want to live up to the promises that Obama made. That's a very different situation from being worried that the next chairman will live up to the promises that Trump has made.

What FCC-related promises has Trump made? I know he's said a lot of unsettling things, but nothing springs to mind regarding net neutrality or the like.

This is the best I could find in 5 minutes of click-research:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/53260835850816716...

I wouldn't call it a promise, but it does make an anti NN argument.

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