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China won't be luring foreign tech talent any time soon

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171–180 of 372 posts

Re: China won't be luring foreign tech talent any time soon

#172
post #41

Food? I could put up with everything in China, even the Great Firewall, but food, except xiao long bao, is really no go.

How can you even say that?

Personal issue, Gutter Oil. That is a non-starter for me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutter_oil

Re: China won't be luring foreign tech talent any time soon

#173

As a Chinese I would say that the points in this article, though true, are not among the driving reasons. If you ask me, I would present this list: 1. Practically, there are only 4-5 cities suitable for 'tech talents' in China. The properties prices in these cities are comparable to the ones in NY and SF while the salary isn't. BTW: you have very little chance to be able to get married without a property under your n…

> Primary/secondary education in China is very, very cruel Could you elaborate? Based upon what I see here in Canada, chinese immigrants maniacally push their children to all functions that can be found around. And it's considered good when there're many chinese children in your kid's class.

It would be a book. There are of course extreme workloads from both the schools and the parents. But to me there is something worse - the public shaming culture.

I live in the UK now. Something very odd to me at the beginning is that I can never know how good my kids are doing compare to their classmates. The teachers would politely refuse to answer such questions. And the 'parents meeting' is private to one pupil's parent(s) and the teacher.

In China things do not work this way. Every test - and there are a lot of them - is publicly ranked. There will be a very large poster at the back of the classroom with the ranking on it. The parents' meeting is a meeting for all parents of that class together. A teacher will read the ranking aloud on the stage to all parents. The top pupils will be invited onto the stage and receive praise, which is alright. But the bottom pupils will also be invited onto the stage and receive criticism - in front of all peers and their parents. The idea here is to motivate them work harder to avoid the shaming - or to motivate their parents to push them harder to avoid the shaming. It may work for some. But I see more harm done than good here.

Re: China won't be luring foreign tech talent any time soon

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> developers have a low social standing in China But that's almost everywhere. As an example....I'm an ex-Silicon valley developer, but I am currently living in the Southeast USA and developers are scarcely understood or appreciated here, either. I must always be measured when I introduce myself, only mentioning my managerial responsibilities when I can tell the person does not understand what I actually do. The othe…

> "management of other people" is a key determinant of social status in some places That's because control of other people is the primary status marker in much of the US.

Control over others of their species is a primary status marker in mammals. Even calling that a "human" trait is being waaaay too specific.

Re: China won't be luring foreign tech talent any time soon

#175

As a Chinese I would say that the points in this article, though true, are not among the driving reasons. If you ask me, I would present this list: 1. Practically, there are only 4-5 cities suitable for 'tech talents' in China. The properties prices in these cities are comparable to the ones in NY and SF while the salary isn't. BTW: you have very little chance to be able to get married without a property under your n…

> Primary/secondary education in China is very, very cruel Could you elaborate? Based upon what I see here in Canada, chinese immigrants maniacally push their children to all functions that can be found around. And it's considered good when there're many chinese children in your kid's class.

Just to add an alternative viewpoint here.

It was "cruel" retrospectively and perhaps from the point of American society. Yet it was not really "cruel" when I was "in it". It was not a burden entirely carried by individual students. The entire class was working hard. Everyone was more-or-less tired after class. Teachers and parents accommodated my needs and gave encouragement as long as I was striving to do well in school. Thus it might be ignoring the context to simply push one child in the US to Chinese level of school-work without considering the society around.

Re: China won't be luring foreign tech talent any time soon

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly if you just write characters over and over while listening to Chinese TV you'll be fine. That's how I studied and when I presented in my Chinese class, the two students from Chongqing (who were taking the class to learn traditional characters) were so surprised at my pronunciation their jaws were on the floor.

You transcribed TV shows while repeating the words as they spoke them? Did you put an inordinate amount of time in or do you think your methodology was just that good?

No I just wrote whatever characters we were studying in class that week over and over while I watched streams of Chinese TV. I watched with Chinese subtitles but I didn't actually try to understand every word. It was mostly about framing my mindset towards a Chinese style of speaking and writing.

I spent maybe an hour or two a day, a few days a week. That was my most productive study method for calligraphy and pronunciation. Grammar and other subjects had to be studied in separate ways, but keeping the Chinese tv stream on helped either way.

Re: China won't be luring foreign tech talent any time soon

#178
post #41

Food? I could put up with everything in China, even the Great Firewall, but food, except xiao long bao, is really no go.

How can you even say that?

I lived around Asia for the past 4 years, and Chinese food is in the bottom of my and my friends' list

Re: China won't be luring foreign tech talent any time soon

#179

Have you been, or personally know, a minority immigrant in the US?

This is a bad question/statement for two reasons.

First, your purpose from first blush is to stifle the discussion, not enhance it.

Second, and more disturbingly, you make the implicit arguement that if you're not a minority living in the US you don't have anything to say on the matter, either because you can't possibly know what it's like, or because your (implicitly) white opinion is invalid when it comes to the case of minorities. This argument has been moving through academic and now progressive circles for the last few years, and while its initial purpose was noble - empower minority groups to tell/own their own histories as opposed to being told what/who they are by the existing power structure - I think it has been taken to an extreme that is as radical as it is intellectually hypocritical.

In making the argument - that unless you are a minority, you can't have any meaningful statements about being a minority in America - you're arguing against the idea of a universal human experience, against empathy, and against reason. If what you say is true, why should I bother reading Ta-Nehisi Coates's run of Black Panther[1], or Sylvia Plath, or any of MLK's letters? My ability to understand these figures would be curtailed to the point of meaninglessness by my whiteness, my middle-classnes, my sex. This is patently untrue. There is something uniquely human in us that is touched by these issues. I will never be targeted by police because of my skin tone, but I am still outraged by it. I will never live these problems but I can still see them, and can still work to fix them. Your argument denies that, and I defy it.

[1] It's excellent by the way. Highly recommended.

Re: China won't be luring foreign tech talent any time soon

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. That's pretty horrifying.

None of those stories are rare in the US professional world - GP did not say that's happening every day there. Also, the 40-hr work week is a relatively new development even in advanced nations. China is newer to this game so yes a six day work week will be considered an achievement.

That whole "new to the game" argument never held water with me. They may be "new", but they also have had the ability to watch the rest of the world, and see how they developed. They've had the opportunity to learn from the mistakes of others, and they've outright rejected it.
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