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Fidel Castro has died

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Re: Fidel Castro has died

#171

Post by edblarney »

kuschku wrote: post #164
edblarney wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+ "It's in control of the state, " - actually, it's in control of the Army directly. + The US sprayed 'agent orange' on trees near their firebases, and the vast majority of the 'victims' were American soldiers, not Vietnamese. Obviously, they didn't know what it would do. + The 'embargo' is 100% the fault of Fidel. He put nuclear weapons 40 miles away from florida, from those who backed by the credible threat of usin…

> He put nuclear weapons 40 miles away from florida And the US isn’t putting nukes into NATO states? Italy and Turkey already have had some before Cuba got some, so what’s next? Estonia?

No, the US is definitely not putting nukes in Estonia.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#172

Post by [deleted] »

jknoepfler wrote: post #119

I would encourage the commenters in this thread who see Fidel's legacy as a black-and-white matter of an "evil dictator who did bad things and was wrong about economics" to step back, bear witness to the objective facts about Fidel Castro's life ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fidel_Castro ), think sincerely about what could lead a highly intelligent and charismatic person to become or follow Fidel Castro (as many ha…

[deleted]

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#173

Post by kuschku »

edblarney wrote: post #63
djsumdog wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The western view of Castro is painted with decades of terrible propaganda. The Cuban people have been placed in their situation, not primarily by the Soviets or Castro, but by the American Hegemony and its unending empire across the globe. Many central and south American heads of state have tried to stand up to that empire, and many have died in plane crashes. Hugh Chavez, demonized in American media, put pieces of t…

"The western view of Castro is painted with decades of terrible propaganda." + Fidel does not allow his people to leave, with the threat of punishment. + Fidel does not allow democracy + He does not allow any real internet access + Fidel puts political dissidents in jail + Fidel's private Army own's 85% of the economy + Cuban's live in relative poverty + Only the US 'embargos' Cuba, they are free to trade with 167 ot…

> + Only the US 'embargos' Cuba, they are free to trade with 167 other nations in the world - and even buy American products from wherever they want - just not America.

Except, any company making a deal with Cuba is automatically banned from dealing with the US.

To this date, the US even interfers in Europe regarding that: There is a famous case where a German bought Cuban Cigars from a Dane, and the FBI interfered, and seized the funds from their bank accounts.

If any company ever touches the USD, the US claims to have jurisdiction over them.

> + Cuban's live in relative poverty

The median wealth and income in Cuba is higher than most middle american countries.

Cuba is not a great country to live in, but please don’t distort the facts. That doesn’t make you any better than the North Korean propaganda that claims the US president eats babies.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#174

Post by nfoz »

kilroy123 wrote: post #3

I went to Cuba earlier this year. It felt like a new era was upon the island. This just solidifies that. Looking back, it will be crazy to think, I went to Cuba while Fidel Castro was still alive.

It's been a vacation spot for Canadians for a long time :)

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#175

Post by gedy »

coldtea wrote: post #77
edblarney wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a disturbing position. I don't doubt that his doctors may have helped you. However, the man has committed grievous crimes, keeps 'his people' in abject poverty, on an 'island prison'. More than 85% of the economy is in the control of the military - his private Army. "Up until today, Cuba still sends significant numbers of doctors to remote African areas and provide expensive medical procedures for free." This…

> However, the man has committed grievous crimes Way less crimes than those who accuse him. Never sprayed Vietnamese with Agent Orange or napalms for one, never dropped nuclear bombs on civilians, never supported Pinochet et co, doesn't have 25% of the world's incarcerated in just 4% of the global population, and lots of other things besides. > keeps 'his people' in abject poverty A 40+ years embargo has something to…

> Never sprayed Vietnamese with Agent Orange or napalms for one, never dropped nuclear bombs on civilians

Yes, on the North Vietnamese invaders who had a track record of murdering civilians well before the US was ever involved. And the Japanese who perpetrated the Rape of Nanking, etc.

But even so - the US has voted out these previous politicians whereas Cubans were and are not able to do that.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#176

Post by betolink »

refurb wrote: post #155
betolink wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not going to get into details but if you take major economic facts about Cuba before the revolution and after it the balance is clear. http://hdr.undp.org/en/countries/profiles/CUB comparatively they do better than most Latin American countries. It's a shame that their leaders weren't more pragmatic and allowed more civil liberties but then again, they always lived under an embargo and a permanent terror campaign…

comparatively they do better than most Latin American countries. That explains why you see so many people from surrounding Latin America countries flocking to Cuba, right?

Why Cuba when the richest economy in the world is around the corner? Cuba doesn't have a functional economy for their own citizens let alone for potential immigrants. However, their standard of living is not as bad as people in the west think, that's why I refer to the human development index.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#177

Post by ant6n »

akubera wrote: post #141
djsumdog wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you buy a beer for your friends at a bar and maybe next week they buy a round, that's communism. Communism is a central part of western society. China, the USSA and Cuba were never communism. They varied between heavy socialism (also a pinical of all high income countries: roads, trains, parks, police, fire, airports) and fascism. A lot of people who just go on about communists, today, in 2016, seemed to have no…

I'd recommend reading the communist manifesto to understand the issue better. Buying beer and sharing with friends week after week is a good example of capitalism, as the bar owner is profiting so much from you and your friends buying all this beer. Communism (of the Marxist variety) would be you and your friends being allocated the same amount of beer by the state, which owns the beer (along with all goods), and dea…

Communism proposes to collectivize the means of production; there's still _some_ individual ownership.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#178

Post by edblarney »

justicezyx wrote: post #123
edblarney wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fully sympathize with that fact and it's correct. Just as I understand there is some Cuban goodwill with respect to the doctors they send abroad - and early on Fidel's creation of better literacy/healthcare programs. But remember this: Fidel worked with the Russians to put nuclear weapons 40 miles away from the USA - and created a crazy situation - the closest the world has ever been to full blown nuclear war. That…

> Fidel worked with the Russians to put nuclear weapons 40 miles away from the USA That's after US did the same to Russia and failed invasion of Cuba. “In response to the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion of 1961, and the presence of American Jupiter ballistic missiles in Italy and Turkey, Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev decided to agree to Cuba's request to place nuclear missiles in Cuba to deter future harassment of Cuba…

"reactive knee-jerking response to the aggressive stance of US."

It was a response to the Cuban revolution, which was Communist, and 'Soviet inspired' from day one - a global movement which was threatening the entire world.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#179

Post by bobwaycott »

mememachine wrote: post #42
ant6n wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it 'unforgivable' to be communist?

Because of the incredible harm to humanity done at the hands of communists over just the past 100 years alone

How do you feel about the incredible harm done at the hands of capitalists and liberal democracies over just the past 100 years alone?

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#180

Post by drukenemo »

peterkelly wrote: post #19

Excerpt from the article on CNN (probably edited by the time you read this): http://edition.cnn.com/2016/11/26/americas/fidel-castro-obit... "One Castro or another has ruled Cuba over a period that spans seven decades and 11 U.S. presidents. Fidel Castro outlived six of those presidents,[[[NOTE: change to seven if George H.W. Bush dies before Castro]]] including Cold War warriors John F. Kennedy, Richard Nixon and Ro…

That's exactly one of my main criticisms about Castro - his self-belief that only him could govern Cuba. Was he immortal, he wouldn't have stepped down from power, I believe.
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