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Firefox Focus – a free, fast and easy to use private browser for iOS

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: Firefox Focus – a free, fast and easy to use private browser for iOS

#171

Post by guelo »

benologist wrote: post #151
mikeash wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple gets away with it because they don't have a monopoly. There's a large variety of non-Apple smartphones and tablets you can buy. Microsoft's behavior was restricted because they were a monopoly. There were alternatives to Windows, but the court decided that they were sufficiently insignificant that Windows was effectively a monopoly. That changes the rules. Windows market share at the time was about 95%, Apple's…

Is a monopoly suit the only legal way to instigate change?

A new law could do it. Of course Silicon Valley claims that they are so ingenious that it would be a crime against humanity to regulate them.

Re: Firefox Focus – a free, fast and easy to use private browser for iOS

#172

Post by scott_karana »

st3fan wrote: post #110
scott_karana wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it helps, it's just a Safari wrapper, so it shouldn't take much more space.

Actually, it is a UIWebView wrapper. Safari is a complete application that does a ton of stuff not appropriate for Firefoc Focus. UIWebView is just a UIKit component to render web pages in a rectangular area on screen.

I'm aware of the distinction, but wasn't sure how technical the person I was addressing was. ;)

Re: Firefox Focus – a free, fast and easy to use private browser for iOS

#173

Post by eridius »

AsyncAwait wrote: post #127
st3fan wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop talking about 'reskinned safari' please. This is not how it works. It is not what those alternative browsers currently are. You make it sound like we just change the color of the bezel. There are huge amounts of code around the WKWebView, which is the only thing common between browsers.

Servo for example cannot come to iOS because of Apple's restrictions. It doesn't matter that YOU are fine with WebKit, some of us want to see dfferent rendering engines seeing how they're kind of core to the whole browser. WebKit is slowly but surely becoming another IE, something I think we can all agree would be a bad thing.

Edit: The following comment is incorrect. I checked the guidelines and they've actually revised it to explicitly say you have to use WebKit for apps that browse the web.

> Apps that browse the web must use the appropriate WebKit framework and WebKit Javascript

Original comment:

AIUI the only real restriction here is against executing downloaded code, but you should be able to still write your own competing engine as long as you use JavaScriptCore to execute JS. That said, you can't do out-of-process execution or JIT compilation, so your engine won't be as fast as WKWebView, which means it won't be competitive and so there's not much reason to go through all the effort of making a new iOS browsing engine if users aren't going to want to use it.

Re: Firefox Focus – a free, fast and easy to use private browser for iOS

#174

Post by eridius »

Caspy7 wrote: post #123
planetjones wrote: post #85

Why can't someone take Apple to court and argue that developers should be able to build native web browser apps without relying on the Web View component? We have st3fan saying "Firefox Focus" is not ideal because he's had to use the older and slower WKWebView to implement it. Isn't this similar to Microsoft when they were forced to allow a choice of browser, or do Apple get away with it because they allow alternativ…

Not precisely your question, but a company actually is suing them for poor HTML5 support in Safari and iOS. http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/10/07/french-company-sue...

I'm really curious what French law could actually be the basis for a lawsuit like this. Apple has a platform with users. Companies want to use the platform. But companies don't have an intrinsic right to do whatever they want on the platform, and the platform does not have a monopoly. So why would the law say that someone can sue them over HTML5 support?

Re: Firefox Focus – a free, fast and easy to use private browser for iOS

#175

Post by eridius »

zapu wrote: post #113
st3fan wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is complicated. Here is the story of two WebView implementations in iOS: Firefox is based on the WKWebView. Modern and Fast, but has a very poor (thin) API. It has zero options for interacting with the network stack, which is a requirement for content blocking. Bugs have been open since iOS 8, Apple does not seem to be interested or does not have the resources to surface more API. All the APIs are in WKWebView, ju…

Is either able to use JIT for JavaScript engine or is it only enabled for Apple's "blessed-process" iOS Safari?

WKWebView executes out-of-process just like Safari and so it performs just as well. In fact, that's the whole reason that WKWebView exists (instead of just using UIWebView).

Re: Firefox Focus – a free, fast and easy to use private browser for iOS

#176

Post by eridius »

AaronMT wrote: post #11
DemiGuru wrote: post #9

Would you please elaborate how this is different from using Safari in Private Browsing mode? If I am not mistaken Firefox Focus on iOS would still use WebKit under the hood. Edit: I'm not being facetious or sarcastic.

Private Browsing (regardless of browser) does not prevent online tracking. By removing trackers and ads, web pages may require less data and load faster.

You can use a separate Safari content blocker to prevent online tracking.

Re: Firefox Focus – a free, fast and easy to use private browser for iOS

#177

Post by eridius »

yoz-y wrote: post #19
aoro wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Firefox Focus continues to operate as a Safari content blocker on iOS, and users will be able to take advantage of Tracking Protection on both Safari and Firefox Focus." Goes beyond just a browser.

I have not used these APIs but I wonder whether it is faster to use Safari in private mode with Focus as a blocker, or using focus directly. Afaik Safari compiles the blocker rules into some binary representation and is thus able to apply them really fast. Do Webkit applications have access to similar functionality?

Safari will be faster. Focus uses UIWebView, which is markedly slower than WKWebView (UIWebView executes in-process and cannot JIT, WKWebView executes out-of-process and can JIT and is as fast as Safari).

Re: Firefox Focus – a free, fast and easy to use private browser for iOS

#178

Post by mikhailt »

solnyshok wrote: post #132
matthewmacleod wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Start from the other end – on what basis do you think that someone would be able to take Apple to court? Why do you think that they should be stopped from deciding what the platform they develop will and will not support?

just like there is freedom of speech, there should be freedom of browser choice. either device is browserless, or, it should allow for more than one browser. I'd add this to modern commandments, somewhere between net neutrality, independent DNS and guaranteed free internet access for everyone.

Please go read what freedom of speech means, you definitely seem to have a wrong understanding of it.

You absolutely have no rights to talk here, HN can ban you for no reason and it is not a violation of your freedom of speech in US. Just as HN has the right to ban your ability to use a specific browser to access the site.

Just as Microsoft has the right to limit Xbox games only on their Xbox platform, news network to block you from accessing their sites if they detected ad-blockers and so many valid situations.

You have absolutely no right to anything on any private properties either. Apple owns the platforms that these apps run on, they have all of the rights, not the app developers nor you. You and the app developers agree to Apple's terms when you decide to use their software (EULA and developer program's terms).

By the way, you have no rights to walk in any stores and tell them you want to use a different cart in their store because you think their carts suck.

Re: Firefox Focus – a free, fast and easy to use private browser for iOS

#179

Post by ryanpollock »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #163
planetjones wrote: post #85

Why can't someone take Apple to court and argue that developers should be able to build native web browser apps without relying on the Web View component? We have st3fan saying "Firefox Focus" is not ideal because he's had to use the older and slower WKWebView to implement it. Isn't this similar to Microsoft when they were forced to allow a choice of browser, or do Apple get away with it because they allow alternativ…

Assuming you could sue, what is the motivation for this? If you dislike the ecosystem so much, jump ship to the #1 mobile ecosystem, Android. What am I missing? Apple popularity in the US is unusually high?

Apple's devices are hugely popular among higher-income individuals, especially in the United States. Benedict Evans has written that there are 650 million iOS devices in active use globally. According to App Annie, roughly 2/3 of mobile application revenues are through the App Store. The other 1/3 is Google Play.

Considering how much consumers have invested in the Apple ecosystem across multiple devices, it's not reasonable to expect that consumers will switch to Android. Apple's customers are locked in.

The question is whether it's OK for Apple to prevent competition within iOS.

Re: Firefox Focus – a free, fast and easy to use private browser for iOS

#180

Post by curried_haskell »

guelo wrote: post #171
benologist wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is a monopoly suit the only legal way to instigate change?

A new law could do it. Of course Silicon Valley claims that they are so ingenious that it would be a crime against humanity to regulate them.

Don't worry,they'll just create another start-up to inexplicably solve this problem with a new trendy web service.
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