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Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

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Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#171

Post by debacle »

Delmania wrote: post #70
ikeboy wrote: post #22

Tl;dr >We agree that people shouldn’t be fired for their political views, but

The problem is that this election is not about a difference of opinions over the fundamental issues. It's become a spite-driven, rage-fueled, all out fear mongering and hate breeding spectacle. Trump's supporters have, in some cases, started talking open revolt if he doesn't win. On Twitter, there was a hashtag of #RepealThe19th, which essentially said they wanted to disenfranchise women in efforts to ensure Trump is…

> It's become a spite-driven, rage-fueled, all out fear mongering and hate breeding spectacle.

That happens every time.

> Trump's supporters have, in some cases, started talking open revolt if he doesn't win.

This also happens every time.

> On Twitter, there was a hashtag of #RepealThe19th, which essentially said they wanted to disenfranchise women in efforts to ensure Trump is supported.

Eco-terrorists vote too.

> Trump is threatening to throw Hillary in jail

There's a not-insignificant percentage of the population (potentially a majority) who believe that jail is where she belongs.

Being receptive to free speech means being receptive to free speech, full stop. It is a pillar of our country, and regardless of how incendiary you view anyone else, this is a country where the KKK, fundamentalist groups of all flavors, Nazis, etc, are all allowed to exist and that's important.

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#172

Post by nickpsecurity »

natrius wrote: post #16

Cleaving off 40% of America is not a recipe for progress. When Trump shows his people how they're getting blacklisted from the economy, that isn't going to make them want to riot less . Our culture of progress has become entirely about excluding dissenters until they submit, and it's not working anymore . We've given up on convincing the people who have all the weapons, and now we're going to start hurting them econo…

This article from an infotainment site is the best write-up I've seen on where a lot of Trump's support comes from. Applies to Duck Dynasty's success as well imho.

http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-on...

Media and many businesses are excluding and mocking a huge chunk of America. I deal with that chunk on a regular basis. Most are decent, hard-working people with different political views is all. A small percentage of them are as bad as portrayed in some category. You wouldn't think that from how liberal organizations or media portray them. Huge untapped market for politics and business if people market it the right way. The shocking thing is lack of Republican candidates really appealing to them. Even business people as I can think of plenty Republican founders and executives that make a better President than Trump. Mind-blowing.

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#173

Post by M_Grey »

mootothemax wrote: post #75

Hang on - Thiel thinks women shouldn't have the right to vote, and has written unambiguously as much? How on earth is that not the argument for dropping him? From another angle, how on earth can you trust someone's advice if they truly and honestly think like that? I'm honestly shocked YC can champion women founders while having someone like this involved as a partner. Just shocking. And so, so disappointing.

I'd say it's typical, and pathetic, not surprising. Lets not pretend that anyone particularly cares about his thoughts where they don't pertain to his incredibly narrow specialty, and more importantly, his money.

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#174

Post by Alex3917 »

RangerScience wrote: post #163
Alex3917 wrote: post #10

> His attacks on Black, Mexican, Asian, Muslim, and Jewish people, on women, and on others are more than just political speech; fueled by hate and encouraging violence, they make each of us feel unsafe. Let's assume that not only is Trump a rapist, but that he's keeping a few women tied up in his basement. Even in this scenario, is this worse than Hillary dramatically increasing weapons sales to Saudi Arabia and Qata…

> is this worse than Hillary dramatically increasing weapons sales to Saudi Arabia and Qatar, two countries where rape is currently legal? Yes, although it's taking me awhile to figure out succinct and acceptable reasons "why". I keep coming back to this work: http://engl210-deykute.wikispaces.umb.edu/file/view/omelas.p... I think there's two things, here. The first is: If you're comparing the means, compare the ends…

I personally tend to feel the same way as this. But I also don't think taking the other position is so unreasonable as to inherently warrant banishment.

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#175

Post by 551199 »

masklinn wrote: post #155
551199 wrote: post #117

And people with this kind of thinking are considered to be the good guys? SNL writer Chris Kelly "How bout instead of an “I Voted” sticker, everyone who votes Trump gets to wear a scarlet T for the rest of their lives?"[0] Seriously pause to think that. This fabricated outrage created by media & Clinton campaign of Trump's 'alleged' doings is quite concerning. At the same time there are Wikileaks collusion, media ena…

> This fabricated outrage created by media & Clinton campaign of Trump's 'alleged' doings is quite concerning. You mean the serial sexual assault which he basically confessed to multiple times unprompted (bus tape, stern show, …), and to which his only defences are a british lunatic (who "confessed" to being a child pimp for british cabinet members at 17) and that his accusers are too ugly for him to assault? Let us…

You mean the time Clinton campaign needed a way to counter Bill's actual sexual assault victims Trump was hammering them on.

Wikileaks: 'Democrats prepared fake Trump "grope under the meeting table" Craigslist employment advertisement in May 2016'[0]

[0]https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/787060280832380928

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#176

Post by sedachv »

supergeek133 wrote: post #164
georgemcbay wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"who stands both to be discriminated against but also to get massive tax breaks in a Trump presidency" Well, being as wealthy as Thiel is basically frees you from the day to day realities of being discriminated against. I'm not saying minorities who are rich aren't also victims of prejudice and such, but when you are rich and relatively famous (and any kind of minority) you are very unlikely to be openly discriminate…

By discriminated against do you mean someone saying hateful things to you, or someone actively going out of their way to deny you something? I mean, I see more hateful things being said to celebrities than just about anyone else.

> By discriminated against do you mean someone saying hateful things to you, or someone actively going out of their way to deny you something?

More like being murdered for being gay or black or ... and the police refusing (sometimes openly) to investigate, which used to happen well into the 1960s in the US.

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#177

Post by sctb »

notJim wrote: post #129
sctb wrote: post #99

> The Nazis and white nationalists that have rallied to him are a lost cause. It's important that we avoid deliberately inflammatory statements like this on controversial issues—they serve only to disrupt already-sensitive threads.

Which part is inflammatory? Are you saying white nationalists haven't rallied to him, or that they are not a lost cause?

I apologize for having misread your comment as suggesting that all those who rallied to him were Nazis. It was the use of that word that confused me, because I read it as a judgement rather than identifying a group of currently-living individuals in the US.

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#178

Post by sctb »

sctb wrote: post #99

> The Nazis and white nationalists that have rallied to him are a lost cause. It's important that we avoid deliberately inflammatory statements like this on controversial issues—they serve only to disrupt already-sensitive threads.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12727511 and marked it off-topic.

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#179

Post by debacle »

sulam wrote: post #116
natrius wrote: post #16

Cleaving off 40% of America is not a recipe for progress. When Trump shows his people how they're getting blacklisted from the economy, that isn't going to make them want to riot less . Our culture of progress has become entirely about excluding dissenters until they submit, and it's not working anymore . We've given up on convincing the people who have all the weapons, and now we're going to start hurting them econo…

There are two larges groups of people who are voting for Trump regardless of anything he does (as he said: he could shoot people down on 5th avenue and these people would still vote for him). The largest group of them are Republicans who will always vote Republican. My beef with these people is that I wish they were a little more loyal to our country's values than they were to their party, but fundamentally I've got…

What percentage of the population do you think really identifies as white nationalist?

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#180

Post by thedifference33 »

[deleted] wrote: post #108
NicolasAlvarino wrote: post #85

I would not be surprised if Thiel does not care about Trump's policies or character, but only about ending democracy and reducing the role of goverment, thus making the world "safe of capitalism": https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/educatio...

[deleted]

Must we pick apart every word in an idea, ignoring the bigger picture?

Is it so hard to think an activist billionaire who has thrown his assets around to influence the world his way (not just the Gawker lawsuit), outside anything resembling a democratic process, isn't interested in continuing to do so for his benefit?

I should point out too, to some extent I view YC as 'undemocratic'. A small group of people guiding the world as they see fit with their investments that can have large repercussions in the world is hardly a democratic industry. I don't limit this view JUST to YC, but to how our economy works as a whole. So there's that.

The problem I have with your simplified summation is that it's high level, press-release like rhetoric.

He's a "conservative donor", to sum up your position. Let's see what the conservative side of the country is up to...

The conservative side of the country has been anything but conservative with their policies. Including huge deficit spending, waving away climate change almost entirely, attempting to suspend lynch pin principles of our nation (habeas corpus among others), motions toward tearing down social progress gender/race issues, investing heavily in police state (research Chertoff and his nudey scanners), and attacking labor at every turn (Koch bros heavily financing Walker's union busting machine in Wisconsin), and are by far the more "bomb first, ask questions later" segment.

Lump Thiel's self-serving headlines in there from the last couple years and yeah, he's not to be trusted, IMO. There's no way to simplify his motivations as "conservative donor". He's as suspect as the rest.

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