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Don’t just pardon Edward Snowden; give the man a medal

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Re: Don’t just pardon Edward Snowden; give the man a medal

#171

Post by Namrog84 »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #107

I dont understand what a pardon or a medal will accomplish. At this point I would assume that the moment the US is aware of his location he would be snuffed out, as discretely as possible. Unsure if there are any verifiable marks that prove he's even still alive (like him sending signed messages or something?).

He already did the thing. Do you think he poses any more real risk beyond that of potentialially becoming a martyr? While it's likely some people wouldn't want him being the voice for some things now. Anyone could probably do that just fine. I'd be surprised if anything happens to him beyond maybe putting him behind bars.

Re: Don’t just pardon Edward Snowden; give the man a medal

#172

Post by EthanHeilman »

niccaluim wrote: post #168
vaadu wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When oaths conflict, lying to Congress is still a crime. His non-criminal response should have been "I am not at liberty to discuss program details" or something along those lines.

And if the mere fact of the program's existence is classified? There's no way to respond without violating one of the oaths.

"As you might expect I am unable to provide any comments which will confirm the existence or non-existence of such programs."

They say that all the time.

Re: Don’t just pardon Edward Snowden; give the man a medal

#173

Post by tptacek »

ScottBurson wrote: post #156
tptacek wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this is true, but if that's what's happening, the Russians are holding him hostage. You can simplify this whole point to: Unless the Russians aren't benign --- in which case it's a very bad thing that Snowden is in Russia --- if Snowden wanted to be in Ecuador, he'd be in Ecuador.

> if Snowden wanted to be in Ecuador, he'd be in Ecuador I think this is very naïve. The US wanted him very badly, and we can throw our weight around pretty well. [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Morales_grounding_incident

Could you better explain what you're trying to say here? How is it that the US can prevent Snowden from boarding a plane in Moscow?

Re: Don’t just pardon Edward Snowden; give the man a medal

#174

Post by fixermark »

rrggrr wrote: post #167
fixermark wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That theory is incompatible with the theory that he's actually a deep-cover CIA agent acting to very publicly and internationally embarrass their rival department---the NSA---whom they feel has gathered too much power and overstepped its Constitutional authority. Given the lack of evidence to support either theory, I choose to believe my conspiracy theory because I like it better. ;)

This is ridiculous. Read The Human Factor by Ishmael Jones and see if you still think there's even the remotest of possibilities this is true.

You can't trust a former CIA operative to be truthful about the operational deficiencies of the CIA! That book is just chaff thrown to confuse foreign intelligence services, luring them into a false sense of security about the CIA's imagined weaknesses...

(The fun thing about conspiracy theories is bending them to account for new facts with increasingly twisted, interally-consistent logic ;) )

Re: Don’t just pardon Edward Snowden; give the man a medal

#175

Post by kafkaesq »

zeveb wrote: post #169
kafkaesq wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But tibial stress fractures are a form --- a common form --- of shin splint. The language I'm seeing says that "shin splints" refer specifically to what's called a "medial stress syndrome", which is different from (and of lesser degree) than an actual "stress fracture" like Snowden was diagnosed with. The main point is no one would normally accuse someone who suffered a stress fracture of exaggerating or misstating t…

> The main point is no one would normally accuse someone who suffered a stress fracture of exaggerating or misstating the nature of their condition by referring to it as a "broken X." I would: I think that it indicates a propensity to exaggerate. Moreover, I know folks who've had far worse than just shin splints (broken legs, in fact), and did make it through basic training. Washing out is generally indicative of one…

I would: I think that it indicates a propensity to exaggerate.

Perhaps you would, but if so you'd be placing yourself at odds with the consensus definition of what constitutes a "broken bone". Not that it specifically includes "stress fractures":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bone_fracture

Moreover, I know folks who've had far worse than just shin splints (broken legs, in fact)

I'd continue, but you're going in circles. It's already been established Snowden did not merely have "shin splints."

Re: Don’t just pardon Edward Snowden; give the man a medal

#176

Post by tedunangst »

tptacek wrote: post #173
ScottBurson wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if Snowden wanted to be in Ecuador, he'd be in Ecuador I think this is very naïve. The US wanted him very badly, and we can throw our weight around pretty well. [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Morales_grounding_incident

Could you better explain what you're trying to say here? How is it that the US can prevent Snowden from boarding a plane in Moscow?

They use the HAARP installation to control the weather and cause a catastrophic lightning strike on his plane. That's why he can't go outside.

Re: Don’t just pardon Edward Snowden; give the man a medal

#177

Post by Practicality »

wutbrodo wrote: post #165
Practicality wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who are these generic Americans that think that Snowden should be condemned? Everyone American I know is very grateful for what he did. And I know quite a few. I've only ever heard official policy statements condemning him. I am not even really sure those stating such policy agree with what they are saying (at a personal level).

> Everyone American I know is very grateful for what he did. And I know quite a few. This is an enormously basic fallacy. I was born and raised in the US and have spent a quarter century of life here, so I think it's fair to say "I know quite a few" Americans. But I would think it beyond insane to claim that my sample is useful for statements like "I know a lot of Americans and none feel this way. Who are they?". I a…

That was precisely my point. Thanks. :)

(The comment I was replying to said that Americans are ok with one thing but not ok with another. It was implying that all Americans think the same way and I disagree)

Re: Don’t just pardon Edward Snowden; give the man a medal

#178

Post by tptacek »

kafkaesq wrote: post #175
zeveb wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The main point is no one would normally accuse someone who suffered a stress fracture of exaggerating or misstating the nature of their condition by referring to it as a "broken X." I would: I think that it indicates a propensity to exaggerate. Moreover, I know folks who've had far worse than just shin splints (broken legs, in fact), and did make it through basic training. Washing out is generally indicative of one…

I would: I think that it indicates a propensity to exaggerate. Perhaps you would, but if so you'd be placing yourself at odds with the consensus definition of what constitutes a "broken bone". Not that it specifically includes "stress fractures": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bone_fracture Moreover, I know folks who've had far worse than just shin splints (broken legs, in fact) I'd continue, but you're going in circl…

No. "Shin splints" is a symptom, not a diagnosis. Tibial stress fractures are a cause of shin splints. A lot of people who have "shin splints" have, in fact, tibial stress fractures. The first line treatment for bilateral tibial stress fractures is "stop working out for 4-12 weeks". They are apparently common in basic training (and diagnosis is apparently getting better, so that a lot of people that would normally have just complained about shin splints are now being diagnosed with small stress fractures).

Neither Gellman nor the House Intelligence report is incorrect here.

Re: Don’t just pardon Edward Snowden; give the man a medal

#179

Post by Practicality »

jacalata wrote: post #93
Practicality wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. But Kerry did get 48% of the vote. That's a LOT of people. It's not like the 50% who voted for Bush are the only Americans that exist.

Of course not. I understood your comment to be questioning whether there exist any individual Americans who condemn Snowden and proposing as evidence for their non-existence "Everyone American I know". If you were just saying that you don't think the majority of Americans condemn Snowden then I have no disagreement.

I was disagreeing with the premise that all Americans think exactly the same thing by presenting any example of Americans who disagree. Since I know quite a few, it's at least enough that you can't say "Americans think X," which is what the post I replied to said.

Re: Don’t just pardon Edward Snowden; give the man a medal

#180

Post by Practicality »

Grishnakh wrote: post #159
Practicality wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who are these generic Americans that think that Snowden should be condemned? Everyone American I know is very grateful for what he did. And I know quite a few. I've only ever heard official policy statements condemning him. I am not even really sure those stating such policy agree with what they are saying (at a personal level).

You're obviously hanging around only certain groups of people, and not reading message boards filled with pro-authoritarian people. Go to any message board with right-wingers and you'll see him denounced as a traitor. HN is simply not the place where you're going to see this.

Fair enough, but pro-authoritarian boards do not represent all Americans. I was replying to a post that said "Americans think..." implying that all or most Americans think the same thing, so I was presenting a counter-point that not all or even most Americans think like that.
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