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The Shame of Palo Alto: An Interview with Kate Downing on Affordable Housing

stanfordpolitics.com

171–180 of 208 posts

Re: The Shame of Palo Alto: An Interview with Kate Downing on Affordable Housing

#171

I get depressed every time I think about the Bay Area housing situation. As half of an early-30s professional couple looking at our baby clock and anxious to start a family, I don't see how I can possibly provide a middle-class lifestyle for children while staying here. The choices are to join the bleeding edge of gentrification by moving into a slum like East Palo Alto or commit to severely degraded quality of life…

Not sure what part of the bay area you live/work in, but where have you been looking? I bought in Redwood City last year and the prices, while high relative to the rest of the country, are probably manageable for many professional Bay Area couples. You can get a decent 3 bedroom for $900k-$1.2m, which is probably ~$3k-$4k/mo for [mortgage + property taxes - tax breaks].

Wow, only a million dollars for a 3 bedroom house. That's so affordable /s

Re: The Shame of Palo Alto: An Interview with Kate Downing on Affordable Housing

#172

It seems that we made a pact with the devil by positioning housing as an investment asset. By doing so, we've encouraged people to commit a very large fraction of their net worth into a rather illiquid asset, tying their financial fates to the future assessment of that asset. As a result, protecting the price and appreciation of this asset has come to overshadow the other crucial roles that housing plays in our socie…

I'm not sure that nimby behavior can be explained by a desire to maximize the cash value of a single family home. Keep in mind, owners typically own the land their house sits on as well. If I were allowed to purchase a SFH in palo alto, tear it down, and replace it with a four story apartment building, I would probably profit, even at these sky high prices.

This does come up in San Francisco as well. I live in one of the SFH zoned parts of SF, though we are all packed in there, houses are small, not free standing and backyards are small. A friend who lives nearby owns a SFH that is technically zoned R-2. This means that he could technically tear down his house and build two flats. This isn't just theoretical, it has been done on his street. I do believe that the value of the two flats would be considerably greater than the dollar value of his SFH (especially if nobody else did it, but even if it were widespread). He could still live in one of them, with the same square footage he currently has, and with the profits, he could pay off his mortgage and have an impressive chunk of change left over.

Hostility to greater density is a complex issue, but I really don't think that a drive to maximize the dollar value of real estate assets is the major factor here. If people were purely interested in maximizing this dollar value, I think they'd be agitating for the right to build, rather than the right to prevent their neighbors from building.

I think that a lot of bay area nimbys are long time residents who bought when it was less expensive and are well heeled enough that they don't really need the money, and anyway, where would they go? If they cashed in by tearing their house down and making a ton of dough, they'd try to move to... well, a medium density suburb with nice, old, historic houses, pleasant year round weather, a university nearby, a city with a good opera and ballet a moderate drive away, and... oh wait, yeah, palo alto - just. as. it. is.

To me, there's yer trouble.

Re: The Shame of Palo Alto: An Interview with Kate Downing on Affordable Housing

#173
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I've pointed out elsewhere on this post, you've setting up a ton of requirements that can't be met. While I appreciate that you want to live in a "walkable area", that's pretty much the first requirement you should drop. That's a "want to have", not a "must have" in housing. Like I've pointed out elsewhere, you're setting up specious arguments when you insist of a bunch of details, like living directly in PA, livi…

The point is that if two professional salaries aren't enough to buy a home in Palo Alto, then it highlights how much everyone else must be struggling. It highlights just how far away all of our service workers must live. Highlights just how miserable housing prices and commutes have gotten for the vast majority of people in the Bay Area who aren't lucky enough to have two professional salaries. If two professionals a…

By the way, in San Mateo, my children go to school with a number of children whose parents are "service workers" for neighboring cities. They live in San Mateo- most of them have bought fixer-uppers in areas like East of 101 where prices are lower (unfortunately, also very close to the freeway, with lots of pollution and noise). Obviously, this is anecdotal, but it's clear that there are people who have recently purchased in this area and are commuting to nearby cities.

Re: The Shame of Palo Alto: An Interview with Kate Downing on Affordable Housing

#174

I get depressed every time I think about the Bay Area housing situation. As half of an early-30s professional couple looking at our baby clock and anxious to start a family, I don't see how I can possibly provide a middle-class lifestyle for children while staying here. The choices are to join the bleeding edge of gentrification by moving into a slum like East Palo Alto or commit to severely degraded quality of life…

commit to severely degraded quality of life that comes with a megacommute

Do not under any circumstances concede to a megacommute, any other option is better than that. You might as well concede to chopping your right arm off.

Re: The Shame of Palo Alto: An Interview with Kate Downing on Affordable Housing

#175
post #172

It seems that we made a pact with the devil by positioning housing as an investment asset. By doing so, we've encouraged people to commit a very large fraction of their net worth into a rather illiquid asset, tying their financial fates to the future assessment of that asset. As a result, protecting the price and appreciation of this asset has come to overshadow the other crucial roles that housing plays in our socie…

I'm not sure that nimby behavior can be explained by a desire to maximize the cash value of a single family home. Keep in mind, owners typically own the land their house sits on as well. If I were allowed to purchase a SFH in palo alto, tear it down, and replace it with a four story apartment building, I would probably profit, even at these sky high prices. This does come up in San Francisco as well. I live in one of…

You'd have to get the property rezoned for multiple family occupancy.. Good luck with that.

Re: The Shame of Palo Alto: An Interview with Kate Downing on Affordable Housing

#176
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude, where do you get off telling her what choices to make about where to live?

Well, she and I share a great deal of things in common in this situation. We're both dual professional marriages with families in the Bay Area who are in the situation where housing in the areas where we want to live is unaffordable. The difference is while I also want to see denser and more affordable housing and shorter commutes, I didn't rage-quit on the internet over not being able to buy a $2.7M home in exactly…

"Rage-quitting"? She couldn't find what she wanted, so she left. Her argument is not "everyone should get what they want" but that the majority of people's situations are worse than hers. You having different priorities regarding where/how you want to live is great, doesn't mean that they're right for her, or that the choices others have made to get by are right for her. It's great that you can zero in on what the actual problem is, but it seems much more valuable to do what she's doing and spread the information (including how the voting block would have to be overcome) than to give up and suggest everyone else give up, too. "systemic and unchangeable" sounds more like quitting to me than anything in the article.

Re: The Shame of Palo Alto: An Interview with Kate Downing on Affordable Housing

#177

I'm surprised that none of the YCs startups have tried to solve this problem. People really want 'affordable housing' and YC's motto to its startups is to 'make something people want'- so what gives?

On a similar note, I find it profoundly ironic that the hub of "technology will save the world" ideology hasn't fixed other local issues like homelessness.

You have to admit that the bay area has a higher class of homeless though. Where else do you see homeless people with brand new $300 REI tents and iphones?

Re: The Shame of Palo Alto: An Interview with Kate Downing on Affordable Housing

#178

I get depressed every time I think about the Bay Area housing situation. As half of an early-30s professional couple looking at our baby clock and anxious to start a family, I don't see how I can possibly provide a middle-class lifestyle for children while staying here. The choices are to join the bleeding edge of gentrification by moving into a slum like East Palo Alto or commit to severely degraded quality of life…

EPA will gentrify. It already has in some respect. Right now elementary and middle school are bad but for high school you end up in Menlo Atherton. Charter schools exist and Zuckerberg is working on something.

Re: The Shame of Palo Alto: An Interview with Kate Downing on Affordable Housing

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what part of the bay area you live/work in, but where have you been looking? I bought in Redwood City last year and the prices, while high relative to the rest of the country, are probably manageable for many professional Bay Area couples. You can get a decent 3 bedroom for $900k-$1.2m, which is probably ~$3k-$4k/mo for [mortgage + property taxes - tax breaks].

Wow, only a million dollars for a 3 bedroom house. That's so affordable /s

People should come to the midwest or texas and see how far a million can really go

Re: The Shame of Palo Alto: An Interview with Kate Downing on Affordable Housing

#180
post #167
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wanting to live where you work is not "unreasonable millennial self-entitlement", but wanting to live in PA is. PA is one of the best places on earth. That makes it a scarce commodity. A lot more people want to live there than can possibly live there without fundamentally changing what makes it a nice place to live in the first place. If everyone who wanted to live in PA did it wouldn't be PA any more, it would be We…

If some of the area were more like this: https://goo.gl/maps/h6VUZB7hVZs Wouldn't it still be a pretty desirable place to live because of access to so many things, high paying jobs, a great climate, etc....?

It would be pretty desirable, but it would not be as desirable. All else being equal most people would rather live in less crowded conditions.
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