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Machine Learning and Ketosis

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Re: Machine Learning and Ketosis

#171

Post by IanCal »

ivanhoe wrote: post #155
ryeguy wrote: post #138

This is delightfully nerdy and overly analytical, but I can't believe someone would go to the extent of creating this yet never think to look for counterarguments against their dieting regimen. Doing this would have given him the answer much sooner. Trying to figure out how the consumption of certain foods correlates with weight gain/loss is a waste of time because it's simply the caloric content, not the macronutrit…

There are also dozens of studies showing exactly the opposite (I've googled up just two): http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa022207 , http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa022637 . It's pretty safe to assume that currently science is not overly conclusive about this subject. From the point of biochemistry that claim doesn't make much sense either, as calories measured in the food (which is done by measur…

> calories measured in the food (which is done by measuring the heat when you burn it)

They're not measured like this any more, the macros are measured and an average figure for each is applied. It's called the Atwater method.

Re: Machine Learning and Ketosis

#172

Post by amasad »

IanCal wrote: post #166
amasad wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Weight loss is simple: calorie deficit Not that simple. People touting this are usually genetically endowed with great metabolism. I've tried this many times and reach a plateau pretty quickly and have to keep decreasing calories until it's not practical anymore. On the other hand, watching the glycemic index/load does the magic for me.

What do you mean by "great metabolism"? Metabolic rate does not vary that much: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15534426 And to be clear, you can't not lose weight with a calorie deficit.

I guess I meant it as an umbrella term for all the things that I think matters for weight loss. Insulin resistance and the propensity to store more fat than to keep it as glycogen in the blood ready for burning.

Re: Machine Learning and Ketosis

#175

Post by ekidd »

raverbashing wrote: post #174

It's a great experiment However I think the biggest issue with this is that it's considering only a 1 day window. Weight can vary a lot between every day (bladder and bowel contents, muscular glycogen, etc)

Yup. Current weight is a sum of several variables: body fat, muscle, water, and digestive track contents. Nearly all day to day variation (up to three pounds in my case) is water. The long term trend is mostly body fat, but I need at least a week and sometimes up to three to see the underlying fat changes. Sometimes my weight will remain almost level for two weeks, and I'll then I'll drop 5 pounds in a few days, and wind up right back where the underlying calorie consumption said I would.

By using a one day window, the author has mostly detected things that affect water weight. Carb intake is a huge driver of water weight because of muscle glycogen replacement, which includes a huge amount of water.

This isn't to knock ketosis: If you enjoy eating that way and it encourages you not to overeat, then it's probably a great strategy for you. Might be worth checking your lipids after a few months though: I've heard of the rare person who tries the Atkins diet and shoots up to 400+ cholesterol.

Re: Machine Learning and Ketosis

#176

Post by _0w8t »

ihsw wrote: post #140
personjerry wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might be lacking glucose; I believe that is why marathon runners eat glucose before they run.

This is probably it -- after exhausting the contents of the digestive tract, the body resorts to glycogen reserves in muscle and the liver. Your glycogen reserves are your "blood-sugar" and consuming them requires a burst of oxygen, so depleted oxygen typically follows low blood-sugar, ergo yawning. Energy gels are usually high-energy but low-everything-else, which is probably what the parent is referring to ("eat gl…

Only muscles can use glycogen stored in muscles. Brain, digestive tract can only use glycogen energy from liver. Also note that eating just glucose or table sugar before marathon also helps to minimize digestion energy expenditure so most stored glycogen in liver will be used on brain and nervous tissue, not on processing food.

Re: Machine Learning and Ketosis

#177

Post by derefr »

cel1ne wrote: post #142
zatkin wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do a lot of rock climbing, so most of my body is muscle. I'm currently floating at 170 lbs, but would love to lose 10 lbs so I can get up the wall faster. I think that fasting might be foolish because my body needs energy for climbing. In fact, if I wait too long after eating lunch, I tend to get really hungry during climbing and I start yawning a lot (not sure why).

There is an often-forgot other situation where your body needs some stored energy: sickness and accidents.

Does it really need stored energy? Parenteral nutrition in hospital works fine with plain glucose. One would assume you could just eat fruit (or drink soda, I guess) when sick, to get the energy you need right then.

Re: Machine Learning and Ketosis

#178

Post by derefr »

cel1ne wrote: post #145

I lost 15 kg (33 lb) over a period of 7 months. * Stopped drinking juice, coke etc. completely * Ate sweets strictly only once a week (like one cake every sunday) * Ate carbs mainly at lunch when doing sport afterwards. In the evening I ate carbs too, but much less. There's one thing that all these fasting-guides and tips fail to mention: The fastest way to loose weight is to heighten your resting-energy-consumption,…

Your Non-Exercise Activity Thermogenesis (NEAT) apparently determines a lot more of your daily calorie expenditure than your resting-energy consumption does. As in, how much you fidget, pace, shiver, etc.

New stupid weight-loss product: antipsychotics, to induce muscle dystonia! (Which, sadly, wouldn't even work; antipsychotics, despite causing massive amounts of NEAT, cause weight gain—by the opposite mechanism by which stimulants make you not hungry, antipsychotics make you very hungry.)

Re: Machine Learning and Ketosis

#179

Post by _0w8t »

cel1ne wrote: post #145

I lost 15 kg (33 lb) over a period of 7 months. * Stopped drinking juice, coke etc. completely * Ate sweets strictly only once a week (like one cake every sunday) * Ate carbs mainly at lunch when doing sport afterwards. In the evening I ate carbs too, but much less. There's one thing that all these fasting-guides and tips fail to mention: The fastest way to loose weight is to heighten your resting-energy-consumption,…

I read recently that basically we do not know why gaining muscle mass alone leads to weight loss. Energy expenditure theory alone cannot explain it. So latest modern speculation is that muscles affects insulin sensitivity etc. But it could be something else.

That does not change the conclusion - gaining muscle is sure thing for weight loss. It is just we do not know why.

Re: Machine Learning and Ketosis

#180

Post by derefr »

wishinghand wrote: post #95
jtmarmon wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people find that their alertness and focus improve significantly on keto. The trick is that a) it takes quite a while for your body to get adjusted to ketosis. 6 months to fully adjust, but the primary adjustment will take at 2-4 weeks for most people b) during this adjustment period, you'll usually feel like shit. since you're running empty on the fuel your body is used to. but many people cheat, or accidentall…

Plus you have to up your electrolytes of sodium, magnesium, and potassium. If you don't you tend to have a foggy head.

So, pedialyte? Or does that still contain too much glucose?
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