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Tabby's star is dimming at an incredible rate

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Re: Tabby's star is dimming at an incredible rate

#171
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_matter > The name refers to the fact that it does not emit or interact with electromagnetic radiation, such as light, and is thus invisible to the entire electromagnetic spectrum.

Couldn't it bend the light enough that it looks to be dimming to us?

Gravitational lensing has pretty distinct other characteristics that would be noticeable.

Re: Tabby's star is dimming at an incredible rate

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If one is in essence immortal the only purpose that can endure forever is the pursuit of new knowledge. That's making a lot of assumptions about alien psychology, believing they're going to have the same goals as us. Why not 1. Propagation of your species, forever 2. Expansion of your territory until the entire Universe is yours 3. Endless pursuit of pleasure 4. Propagating religious beliefs, or something we'd reco…

My unprovable assumption is that only beings who value knowledge and cooperation highly enough will get to the point of crossing the difficult technological threshold of achieving singularity or space travel. I think the more likely Achilles heel for my scenario is sexual selection - the trap that perpetuates selfish behavior in both sexes even when there is no resource scarcity. Even in this, humans at least are som…

An anthill-like species can value cooperation among themselves without necessarily valuing knowledge for knowledge's sake - imagine the Hive Queens from Ender's Game, or MorningLightMountain.

Re: Tabby's star is dimming at an incredible rate

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Safe to say that a civilization that can build a Dyson structure isn't using any 20th-century coherent modulation types that SETI could detect. SETI is only useful for catching civilizations in the ~100 Earth year-equivalent span between their development of wireless tech and information theory. There's nothing to listen to but white noise after that.

This is speculation. There are all kinds of examples we have of "ancient" technology that are still in everyday use today - knives, for example. There's no reason to think that something else would abandon using EM as a transfer of communication.

Think about how many people get their TV via a wire today, instead of via antenna. A lot of people get satellite TV, which is a strong signal but pointed toward the ground. And even the terrestrial radio and TV stations still broadcasting are strictly power-limited to reduce geographic overlap.

Most long-distance communication travels over wires too--everyone uses fiber backhaul. Phones and computers use EM (cellular, WiFi, Bluetooth) but the range is very short, so the signal power is far too low to report us to the universe.

On top of that, most entertainment and communications signals today are digital, and many are encrypted. It's going to sound like noise to a receiver that doesn't know the encoding and/or have the encryption key.

The most powerful space-facing EM emissions we make today, as a species, is probably RADAR, not a form of communications.

Re: Tabby's star is dimming at an incredible rate

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is speculation. There are all kinds of examples we have of "ancient" technology that are still in everyday use today - knives, for example. There's no reason to think that something else would abandon using EM as a transfer of communication.

Think about how many people get their TV via a wire today, instead of via antenna. A lot of people get satellite TV, which is a strong signal but pointed toward the ground. And even the terrestrial radio and TV stations still broadcasting are strictly power-limited to reduce geographic overlap. Most long-distance communication travels over wires too--everyone uses fiber backhaul. Phones and computers use EM (cellular…

> Think about how many people get their TV via a wire today, instead of via antenna. A lot of people get satellite TV, which is a strong signal but pointed toward the ground.

Since I don't think its coming from manned satellites where the content is generated, I'm pretty sure there is a space-facing signal involved in satellite TV as well as a ground-facing signal.

Re: Tabby's star is dimming at an incredible rate

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO the aliens will not be specifically seeking life that is intelligent. Singularities and interstellar traveling alien civilizations share a problem. If one is in essence immortal the only purpose that can endure forever is the pursuit of new knowledge. Even if alien entities are able to learn all there is to know about all the other sciences, biology will be inexhaustible as the novel patterns that can be produce…

>> biology will be inexhaustible as the novel patterns that can be produced by evolution are effectively infinite But why do you assume they would be interested in observing the patterns that actually have been produced, instead of running high-precision evolutionary emulators that can generate patterns that could be produced at a much higher rate, and maybe even some automated filters to condense it down to "interes…

You can't just wave a wand called "emulation" to hypothesize whatever speed, precision, or rate of calculation you want. Emulators are physical objects and you'd need to show that it's possible to build an emulator that calculates the same amount of information as the Earth's biosphere, but faster, more precise, etc.

Then, once you have the attributes of that emulator, you'd have to calculate how long it would take that emulator to deliver the same information that can be harvested today on Earth with simple observations. And even if it completed, how would you confirm it is indeed the same information without traveling here to check?

The energy budget would be immense of course, but heat management might be the limiting issue on how fast it can run. It's hard to dump heat into space.

I'm not intending to argue one or another about hypothetical god-like alien civilizations. It's just a pet peeve when programmers make open-ended claims about simulations or emulations without considering physical constraints. We tend to think of electronic computers as powerful, but their information handling capabilities are quite slow and diffuse compared to what biology has produced on Earth so far.

Re: Tabby's star is dimming at an incredible rate

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think about how many people get their TV via a wire today, instead of via antenna. A lot of people get satellite TV, which is a strong signal but pointed toward the ground. And even the terrestrial radio and TV stations still broadcasting are strictly power-limited to reduce geographic overlap. Most long-distance communication travels over wires too--everyone uses fiber backhaul. Phones and computers use EM (cellular…

> Think about how many people get their TV via a wire today, instead of via antenna. A lot of people get satellite TV, which is a strong signal but pointed toward the ground. Since I don't think its coming from manned satellites where the content is generated, I'm pretty sure there is a space-facing signal involved in satellite TV as well as a ground-facing signal.

My understanding is that the uplink signal's power is much lower than the broadcast power, because each uplink signal is focused on its satellite by a parabolic dish.

Sure some of the uplink will make it past the satellite, but that's a fairly low-power beam that would need to intersect an alien antenna to be heard.

Re: Tabby's star is dimming at an incredible rate

#177
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Question for you Timex Eclair, can I use a star as the engine for my megaship? Pointing all the photons in direction?

Like this? http://www.popularmechanics.com/space/deep-space/a10885/the-... Of course if this was happening we'd see some unusual proper motion from KIC 8462852. Which we're not. (Did someone check?)

They're coming right for us!!! O_O

Re: Tabby's star is dimming at an incredible rate

#179
post #96

In her TED talk [1] Tabby explains how comets could be an explanation for this phenomenon, she even says that it is consistent with their observations, but then she goes on to say "but it 'feels' a little contrived". Sorry what did I miss here? I thought we were discussing science and coming up with theories that support our evidence using data, how does feeling fit into this picture? Why would it be so unlikely that…

I believe the comet swarm theory also rested on this being a fairly short as well as really massive and rare one-time event, which makes it rather unlikely (though obviously not impossible) that we just happen to be looking just as it happens.

It also doesn't explain the long-term dimming of the star. The alien megastructure kinda does. It's not a perfect explanation either, but from what I understand, slightly more convincing than the giant comet swarm.

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