It's a really nice solution for experiments but I've found it quite difficult to get people to adopt this CSS approach in some companies (regardless of any cross browser implications).
Everyone needs to be on the same page and of course be up to date with CSS3 animations, which can be over looked.
CSS is powerful, you can do a lot of things without JS
171–180 of 319 posts
Re: CSS is powerful, you can do a lot of things without JS
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
Remember when Good Developers would hate on framesets because they break the back button and linking and everything? Now it's totally OK to break all that with AJAX and "text-as-apps"... I much prefer the days of the old web.
Days of the old web where flash was pervasive and best viewed in [IE6|Netscape|Mosaic|...] pages were everywhere. Every generation of the web has had really crappy devs building bad experiences. The current generation is not making anything worse than it's predecessor.
Well, "your browser is unsupported" is something I still live with. And on the other hand, if I don't have the setup the developer expects, things just quietly break with nothing to tell me what's up. How is that better?
Flash never really was a problem for me; very very few used it for anything critical. It was mostly for entertainment and media that has no value for me. I lived just fine with no flash installed, and got performance & security benefits for simply not having it. Living with JS (and other obnoxious features) disabled, on the other hand, has gotten really fucking difficult now.
And frankly the "best viewed in whatever" websites weren't a problem either. On one hand it was mostly fanboyism. On the other, web designers using some niche feature that had no real impact on functionality or my ability to read & navigate the content. Again, I don't recall ever having to switch to another browser because of that. So it really was better for me back in the day.
Re: CSS is powerful, you can do a lot of things without JS
#173Earlier quoted context omitted.
Digression: 'clicking on a link' may become an obscure reference soon, like dialing a phone. How many young people ever use a mouse?
I'm very curious about this: is there a hypothesis that non-mobile computers are going away in the business world and/or that "young people" will not be involved in that world? I don't know the stats - are tablets making big inroads in business computing?
Dunno. But my niece and nephew are tablet/phone experts, and have never used a mouse. And they are 4 and 6.
Re: CSS is powerful, you can do a lot of things without JS
#174Earlier quoted context omitted.
"best viewed in Chrome" is getting annoyingly common.
Bank Of America recently told me it only supported Safari and Chrome on MacOS... But... supported Firefox on Windows. Whaaaa....
And my bank keeps constantly nagging me that my browser (Firefox LTS) is no longer supported and that I must update immediately.
Re: CSS is powerful, you can do a lot of things without JS
#175Numerous accessibility issues here. Many of these examples can't be operated by a keyboard, for example. "CSS only" is not a virtue if it comes at the cost (as it always does) of needlessly excluding people from the web.
It's funny to hear this argument. I constantly hear "well, we don't worry about non-js browsers, because they are such a small minority". Yet how many people are keyboard-only users?
I'm not saying your wrong, or that you are arguing against non-js browsers, just a funny twist.
Re: CSS is powerful, you can do a lot of things without JS
#176Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have to maintain a web interface with framesets and it's much worse than the React stuff I build. Yes it's "one huge js-dependant page for everything", but it can keep track or where it is (and go back to it) using location.hash or path entirely (if the webserver agrees). So I can fix single page apps, I can't fix framesets.
From a user's perspective, what you [as a developer] can or cannot fix doesn't really matter. What's broken is what matters. I find that with the JS craze we've been living for a few years now, things break a lot in the same way they did back in the frameset days. Except that now it is worse in some ways; with framesets, I could link to a specific frame if I wanted. And I could navigate back and forth too, as long as…
> JS crapps
Just as a pointer, using this "portmanteau as diss" discourse style is generally a bad idea if you want to be persuasive to people who aren't sure yet whether or not they agree with you, rather than just "preaching to the choir" who already share your views. The rest of your comment made some decent points, but name-calling like this just comes off as childish.
Re: CSS is powerful, you can do a lot of things without JS
#177Earlier quoted context omitted.
Remember when Good Developers would hate on framesets because they break the back button and linking and everything? Now it's totally OK to break all that with AJAX and "text-as-apps"... I much prefer the days of the old web.
Days of the old web where flash was pervasive and best viewed in [IE6|Netscape|Mosaic|...] pages were everywhere. Every generation of the web has had really crappy devs building bad experiences. The current generation is not making anything worse than it's predecessor.
> ...and best viewed in [IE6|Netscape|Mosaic|...] pages were everywhere
We have "best viewed in Chrome" today, which is no different.
Re: CSS is powerful, you can do a lot of things without JS
#178Earlier quoted context omitted.
> 0.001% that doesn't use JS https://gds.blog.gov.uk/2013/10/21/how-many-people-are-missi... 1.1% of users don't see JavaScript enhancements. Most because it doesn't load, not because they've disabled it. Also, some people use browsers that don't support JavaScript, or their ISP filters JavaScript, or a whole bunch of other things. I'm not endorsing making menus in CSS. I'm just saying that it isn't "accessibility vs…
That article is very nice but you're not reading it correctly if your takeaway is that "1.1% of users would benefit more from a CSS menu than from a JS menu". GDS is the UK government - a large portion of that 1.1% is likely not loading the CSS either. Bots, crawlers, rss readers, etc. The 0.2% number is much closer to what you're looking for. And to repeat: Those that disable javascript have a choice in the matter.…
I didn't take that from it. See "I'm not endorsing making menus in CSS." I'm endorsing progressive enhancement.
Those that disable JavaScript do have a choice in it, but those who don't have JavaScript because it has been disabled for them, or because they are using a device that doesn't support JavaScript, don't have a choice in the matter.
Re: CSS is powerful, you can do a lot of things without JS
#179except, people are still using browsers from yesterday.
idiot.
Re: CSS is powerful, you can do a lot of things without JS
#180I've worked with people who did things like this. It's not fun for anyone else on the team to try and figure out why you're using specific pseudo selectors on tags in a child inside a sibling in some label to make an accordion that would take 3 lines in Javascript.
Do you know of a Github repo that implements these features in javascript? I would love to learn how.