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Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

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Re: Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

#171

Post by DasIch »

nickpsecurity wrote: post #81
DasIch wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that the law regarding rape in Germany is awful. Lack of consent alone is not sufficient for something to be considered rape in Germany. In fact there is currently a fairly noteworthy case ongoing in Germany about a Gina-Lisa Lohfink. She's currently trying to repeal a court decision forcing her to pay money to her rapist. The rapist was considered innocent despite clear video evidence because she didn…

Did this happen in Germany or US? And if in Germany to an American or Americans? Point being, would he be extradited here to be tried according to US laws. If so, the accusers are at an advantage. If not, German law might be legitimate gripe. Cant say more on that given it's not my expertise.

I haven't seen anything to indicate where any of these incidents happened but given the number of accusations it seems you have to assume it happened in both Germany and the US.

Re: Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

#172

Post by sievebrain »

openasocket wrote: post #77
sievebrain wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you mean they're treated badly? The legal system in western countries is very biased in favour of rape accusers. Shield laws are a concrete manifestation of that. Often police are told to automatically believe any rape accusation even if their common sense is telling them it's likely to be false. And so on. Yes, if you make a serious accusation against someone, their defence lawyer is going to ask difficult q…

>The legal system in western countries is very biased in favour of rape accusers. This is patently false. Conviction rates for rape are far lower compared to other crimes[1] >Shield laws are a concrete manifestation of that Shield laws make it so news reporters cannot be forced to reveal their sources, I don't see what this has to do with rape cases. >Being asked a few questions is in no way comparable. Being forced…

Conviction rates don't mean much by themselves because anyone can cause conviction rates to rise or fall by adjusting how many complaints are accepted and turned into cases at the police reception desk. The fact that conviction rates are lower than for other crimes just means that people are more likely to report unprosecutable cases: either because the accusations are false, or because there is no evidence.

There are 'rape shield laws' which is what I was referring to:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_shield_law

> Being forced to re-experience a traumatic event by a party determined to discredit you is pretty horrible.

So what? Being accused of rape is also pretty horrible and being jailed for it is VERY horrible. People who aren't willing to go in front of a judge and jury for these cases are one source of dropouts and the low conviction rate, but they must have known that'd be a part of the process when they made a complaint.

Re: Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

#173

Post by GFK_of_xmaspast »

bitL wrote: post #149
GFK_of_xmaspast wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Don't rape anybody" is probably an easier way.

Given false claims epidemics you have in the US these days my solution seems the only feasible one that can stand up in court. Guess why Linus is never allowing a lone female to be alone with him even for a few seconds?

> Guess why Linus is never allowing a lone female to be alone with him even for a few seconds

Just because Eric Raymond says a thing doesn't make it true.

Re: Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

#174

Post by jubalfh »

bitL wrote: post #149
GFK_of_xmaspast wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Don't rape anybody" is probably an easier way.

Given false claims epidemics you have in the US these days my solution seems the only feasible one that can stand up in court. Guess why Linus is never allowing a lone female to be alone with him even for a few seconds?

Don't let reading Raymond warp your mind. Also, this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11850930.

Re: Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

#175

Post by Chris2048 »

tptacek wrote: post #147
marshray wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For what purported crime? Are we just positing that there might be some arbitrary crime Appelbaum could accuse Assange of? Seriously? https://www.google.com/?q=wikileaks+grand+jury > Doesn't the same logic then apply to, like, anyone else in the world? Presumably most people are not in a position to testify in an ongoing investigation. > Are people trying to do the same thing to Trump? How would I know? What does t…

This is past silly. A faction of the USG has tried for six years to come up with a "conspiracy" charge for Assange, and failed to do so. No surprise: Assange was not legally obligated to protect the documents he received, isn't a citizen of the US, and wasn't even on US soil when he received them. Something had to be done. That was something. They did it. Nothing came of it. This same kind of logic is used to justify…

> justify Assange not reporting back to Sweden to answer to prosecutors

According to Wikipedia:

> Assange has said he would go to Sweden if provided with a diplomatic guarantee that he would not be turned over to the United States, to which the Swedish foreign ministry stated that Sweden's legislation does not allow any judicial decision like extradition to be predetermined

Tell me how it's easier to extradite him from where he is now?

Re: Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

#176

Post by tptacek »

Chris2048 wrote: post #175
tptacek wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is past silly. A faction of the USG has tried for six years to come up with a "conspiracy" charge for Assange, and failed to do so. No surprise: Assange was not legally obligated to protect the documents he received, isn't a citizen of the US, and wasn't even on US soil when he received them. Something had to be done. That was something. They did it. Nothing came of it. This same kind of logic is used to justify…

> justify Assange not reporting back to Sweden to answer to prosecutors According to Wikipedia: > Assange has said he would go to Sweden if provided with a diplomatic guarantee that he would not be turned over to the United States, to which the Swedish foreign ministry stated that Sweden's legislation does not allow any judicial decision like extradition to be predetermined Tell me how it's easier to extradite him fr…

If he returns to Sweden, he will need the approval of both Sweden and the UK to extradite to the US. Right now, he needs only the approval of the UK, home of GCHQ.

Re: Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

#177

Post by retrogradeorbit »

exolymph wrote: post #166
bitL wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given false claims epidemics you have in the US these days my solution seems the only feasible one that can stand up in court. Guess why Linus is never allowing a lone female to be alone with him even for a few seconds?

> Given false claims epidemics you have in the US these days Citation needed.

I don't think its an 'epidemic' as the poster exaggerated, but it does happen.

I don't know about the US, but in Canada the Jian Ghomeshi trial is one recent example that comes to mind. Both the Ghomeshi trial and the Canadian trial of Gregory Alan Elliott show that there are indeed types of people out there who lie to bring charges, or increase the weight of charges bought against someone. And it shows they will lie all the way up to and through a court case, until cross examination (or in Elliott's case an insider tip off of conspiracy) unravel the lies.

I don't know what to think in this case but it is not something you can rule out completely.

Re: Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

#178

Post by geofft »

PavlovsCat wrote: post #163
geofft wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you've conflated the conspiracy that I'm suggesting with the conspiracy suggested by the comment above me. To be clear, I don't think either of these conspiracies are plausible: the simplest theory that fits the evidence is "He's a creep". But I'm suggesting a very different conspiracy from one Appelbaum is insinuating: not that the government has beleaguered him with false accusations, but that the accusatio…

> There are other reports of him passing off research as his own when it was actually by other people, and people being advised to let it go and not draw his ire. Where are those reports though?

There's this one:

https://twitter.com/quinnnorton/status/739672273783652353

https://twitter.com/quinnnorton/status/739672512720576513

I recall seeing a few other claims along these lines on Twitter, but Twitter's ability to search your own timeline is atrocious.

Re: Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

#179

Post by DanBC »

geofft wrote: post #178
PavlovsCat wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are other reports of him passing off research as his own when it was actually by other people, and people being advised to let it go and not draw his ire. Where are those reports though?

There's this one: https://twitter.com/quinnnorton/status/739672273783652353 https://twitter.com/quinnnorton/status/739672512720576513 I recall seeing a few other claims along these lines on Twitter, but Twitter's ability to search your own timeline is atrocious.

I tried using Google's search tools to set a date - "until 01/01/2016" - but that just returns a bunch of old articles that have this new story as a menu item.

Here's one: https://twitter.com/ioerror/status/302261054497509376

Re: Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

#180

Post by Chris2048 »

tptacek wrote: post #176
Chris2048 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> justify Assange not reporting back to Sweden to answer to prosecutors According to Wikipedia: > Assange has said he would go to Sweden if provided with a diplomatic guarantee that he would not be turned over to the United States, to which the Swedish foreign ministry stated that Sweden's legislation does not allow any judicial decision like extradition to be predetermined Tell me how it's easier to extradite him fr…

If he returns to Sweden, he will need the approval of both Sweden and the UK to extradite to the US. Right now, he needs only the approval of the UK, home of GCHQ.

He's in the embassy at the moment. Is he going to Sweden without surrendering to the UK first?
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