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PG on trolls

paulgraham.com

171–180 of 190 posts

Re: PG on trolls

#171
Paul, have you considered personalising as a method of minimising trolling?

As you pointed out, people do things on forums that they wouldn't do in person. IMO, this is partly because they're hiding behind a handle and partly because their target is.

I'm not sure how you'd go about making accounts have more personality and identity, but IMO that would be considerably more effective than just instructing people to behave like they're face-to-face. They know they're not.

Re: PG on trolls

#172
Some people troll because they know better but they are tired of explaining it. They say the truth(tm) when the crowd does not want to here it. I like them.

Re: PG on trolls

#173
This is a fantastic post on a topic that's been a problem with the web since day one.

Very insightful. The Four Reasons feel very accurate.

Thanks, Paul!

Re: PG on trolls

#174
post #172

Some people troll because they know better but they are tired of explaining it. They say the truth(tm) when the crowd does not want to here it. I like them.

I'm of the opinion that if you can't explain something without being exasperated, then why are you bothering to explain it? Go do something else.

Re: PG on trolls

#175
I totally agree. Seeing that most forums are started with something stupid like 'Everyone who uses this forum are woodheads', it sets a series of replies such as 'i am NOT a woodhead!' or "I agree, you are a woodhead or you wouldn't be here'. Especially when I don't know all those shortcuts that eliminate these posts, I find it terribly disturbing to have to read through all those 'comments'. And I hope this isn't spam, please tell me if it is. I am only 11 years old.

Re: PG on trolls

#176
I LOVE how the first response is a Troll comment! My only thought to add is an interaction I had recently with a programmer/hacker/entrepreneur who had made a macro program to automate mining in Eve Online. The program is explicitly contrary to the EULA and so constitutes a hack. The programmer/owner had an elaborate feedback password system, so I had to IM him directly to activate my copy of the program once I paid my fee. He was wildly rude--just throwing off flippant and rude remarks like a vagrant dog throws fleas. After the third or fourth example I started to call him on it--to his, and my great frustration. He did not like being called on his nasty tone at all and denied having one at all. I got so heated that I almost ditched the whole project, but finally calmed down enough to get the transaction done. Later I spoke to a friend in-game who had an identical experience. My point is that this article on how hackers and some programmers tend towards this behavior as a culture explains a lot. My programmer provocateur thought his nastiness was somehow normal, acceptable, and utterly justifiable on the basis of some sense of his own personal superiority. I suppose this is what happens when people take their coding/hacking acumen as a license for megalomania and a total disregard of social graces.

Great essay.

Re: PG on trolls

#177
It's simple, trolls prey on people's inner asshole. It's like a form of bullying, if you rise to the bait, then you're done. There's no technical fix, there's a mentality fix. The act is as old as the hills, and they provide balance to the debate. Trolls are a form of court jester.

I am therefore pro-troll and anti troll-victim.

Re: PG on trolls

#178
post #45
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

reminds me of the physicist who wrote a fake post-modernist paper and submitted it to a journal and got it published.

I'm not sure I'd regard the Sokal affair as trolling. It's hardly being an asshole, unless you consider exposing idiots being an ass, and it's hardly fishing for controversy, unless exposing any kind of potentially controversial stuff is trolling (was Watergate trolling?).

No, watergate was not trolling, because it was not a forum game. Watergate was a scam, it was also an accident (getting rather busted).

Trolling is a scam performed for the purposes of a humorous prank on a discussion board.

Watergate was a scam to pervert the course of democratic government.

Re: PG on trolls

#179
post #8
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree with you that avoiding those discussions is a reasonable general policy, it's not the case that "no one is really right or wrong" in debates about computer languages, politics, or religion. There is a truth of the matter. Your point that not much is accomplished by such discussions is definitely what usually happens. But it isn't what must happen. There are rational ways of discussing these subjects whi…

it's not the case that "no one is really right or wrong" in debates about computer languages, politics, or religion. There is a truth of the matter. Well, yes and no. There's only a truth to the matter if you can get people to agree on a premise. Two libertarians who adopt the same premises can have a meaningful debate with each other. They'll agree that there can only be one consistent position -- so if they disagre…

a court with no jester is destined to become pompous and corrupt.

Re: PG on trolls

#180
post #3

Like graffiti, trolling can be impressive when it's done especially well. My favorite troll of all time is the guy from comp.compression last August: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.compression/browse_threa... followed by the famous "Is Your Son a Computer Hacker?" troll from adequacy.org: http://adequacy.org/public/stories/2001.12.2.42056.2147.html

HAHAHA! I know the adequacy.org one. That had me in stitches for weeks.
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