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SpaceX lands rocket at sea second time after satellite launch

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket at sea second time after satellite launch

#171

Post by LocaX »

ino wrote: post #154

How are non-US space agencies and companies (like ESA, Russia, Japan, China, etc) reacting to the SpaceX and Blue Origin achievements? Are they also testing similar things but we aren't hearing? Or they aren't threatened by the advances?

I attended a conference from the head of the CNES (Centre National d'Etudes Spatiales, ~ French NASA) in Paris a week ago and he talked about that.

Ariane 6 is going to be built with a cost effective approach and trying to focus on market needs (3D printing of parts, reusability of the first stage, etc.)

At first, concerning SpaceX, his group of experts told him that the design of the rocket wasn't going to work and was going to explode at high altitude due to fluctuation. They also told him that the first stage would just go through the barge, sinking both the first stage and the barge. Now they are taking new entrants way more seriously.

Re: SpaceX lands rocket at sea second time after satellite launch

#172

Post by bane »

bluthru wrote: post #122
neals wrote: post #28

I always try to watch the webcasts and I can't help but cringe so hard when they start chanting 'USA USA USA', every single time. What is up with that?

It'd be one thing if it was NASA, but a private company? What's the point?

A private company that happens to be American?

Re: SpaceX lands rocket at sea second time after satellite launch

#173

Post by bane »

simonh wrote: post #37
neals wrote: post #28

I always try to watch the webcasts and I can't help but cringe so hard when they start chanting 'USA USA USA', every single time. What is up with that?

As a Brit we don't have anything as catchy. UKGBNI, or even just UK doesn't have the same ring to it. 'Enganld' wouldn't work because we're too diverse. It would be a bit like the SpaceX folks cheering 'California' in that I'm sure a lot of them are from elsewhere. I've come across it in a few other contexts and I take it like a football chant.

The U-S-A chant originates in sporting, it's just carried over to other highly competitive environments.

Re: SpaceX lands rocket at sea second time after satellite launch

#174

Post by larrydag »

throwaway2016a wrote: post #118
mabbo wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose this is why people say "it's not rocket science".

Slightly off topic but I was watching a television show the other day and someone said they worked at NASA. The host then said "So you're literally a rocket scientist?" And the guy said emphatically "Rocket engineer, there is a big difference" I'm sure this particular task probably was a little bit of both. After all, they had to run several real world experiments to prove their calculations.

Here's a reason why that guy answered it that way. Note these are my definitions but I've heard it before.

Scientist: Studies and uncovers mysteries of the universe and natural world

Engineer: Applies what scientists discovers

Re: SpaceX lands rocket at sea second time after satellite launch

#175

Post by mikeash »

abduhl wrote: post #162
agumonkey wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on some talks the first lunar landings were way more adventurous and lucky than what SpaceX is doing. Making a snooker trick shot is nice, announcing it and doing it twice is another thing.

What about announcing it and doing it six times? That's the number of times we landed men on the moon. Let's not try to downplay NASA's previous successes as "lucky" and "adventurous" in order to make SpaceX seem more advanced in an engineering sense.

Announcing it seven times and doing it six times....

Luck did play a pretty big role in Apollo. This is not to discount the huge amount of work and skill that went into making most of those missions a success, but there was sometimes not a whole lot separating them from failure. Apollo 11's landing site ended up being covered with boulders and they nearly had to abort before they found a suitable landing site. Apollo 12 got hit by lightning on the way up, knocking out computers and nearly causing an abort. Apollo 13 came within seconds of exploding on launch, and was saved by a false fuel alarm shutting down the misbehaving engine.

Of course, this is only to be expected when you're doing something so big and new. SpaceX has the benefit of all that experience.

Re: SpaceX lands rocket at sea second time after satellite launch

#176

Post by Davesjoshin »

leecarraher wrote: post #168

Am i missing something, is the need to land vertically a requirement of a fragile fuselage? Seems wasteful to carry extra anything (in this case rocket propellant) to space, just to avoid having to re-right the rocket when you get it back on earth for a subsequent launch. Is extra fuel payload < landing gear or parachutes?

I'm guessing they want a single solution like vector thrusting because it can be used on planets with and without atmospheres.

Re: SpaceX lands rocket at sea second time after satellite launch

#177

Post by bane »

vidarh wrote: post #52
adventured wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's not. The French, British and Italians for example all have extreme amounts of nationalistic pride and show it throughout their economies, the pride they hold regarding their history and culture. Scandinavia is very proud of its broadly tremendous standard of living and their well run welfare states, etc. - and Scandinavians are never shy about bragging about it online in my observation, you can hardly get awa…

But it is the chant we are talking about. I can't think of anywhere else I've been where someone starting to chant the country's name in response to the actions of a single company wouldn't lead to embarrassed looks and face-palming from people around them. This is not about there not being nationalism elsewhere, but about how US nationalism gets expressed in contexts that is not seen as representative of the nation…

Why wouldn't an American company, doing business in America, funded mostly by American government contracts and helping carry out American space priorities, and THEN doing it in a way that brings about the first major advance in spaceflight technology in generations not be a place where they might chant the name of the country that this is all happening in, by and for?

> I can't remember a single big work-related success where anyone started chanting anything. Cheering and clapping and popping champagne, sure, but not chanting.

Have you ever worked at a place that did anything within even an order of magnitude of what SpaceX has done?

I'm an American and we don't chant USA at the end of an IT contract delivery, or because we set up a database well or something. But if I put something in outer space, then brought it back down to earth and landed it on a robot ship in the middle of the ocean at night, I'd sure as hell be chanting something.

Re: SpaceX lands rocket at sea second time after satellite launch

#178

Post by ehnto »

leecarraher wrote: post #168

Am i missing something, is the need to land vertically a requirement of a fragile fuselage? Seems wasteful to carry extra anything (in this case rocket propellant) to space, just to avoid having to re-right the rocket when you get it back on earth for a subsequent launch. Is extra fuel payload < landing gear or parachutes?

It is partly because they are trying to develop a system which can be used regardless of atmospheric conditions, so reusable in another sense. Parachutes don't do so well on the moon, for example.

But also because a parachute landing actually does a lot more damage than you might expect, and sea water is the last thing you want in your million dollar rocket engine.

Re: SpaceX lands rocket at sea second time after satellite launch

#179

Post by mikeash »

LocaX wrote: post #171
ino wrote: post #154

How are non-US space agencies and companies (like ESA, Russia, Japan, China, etc) reacting to the SpaceX and Blue Origin achievements? Are they also testing similar things but we aren't hearing? Or they aren't threatened by the advances?

I attended a conference from the head of the CNES (Centre National d'Etudes Spatiales, ~ French NASA) in Paris a week ago and he talked about that. Ariane 6 is going to be built with a cost effective approach and trying to focus on market needs (3D printing of parts, reusability of the first stage, etc.) At first, concerning SpaceX, his group of experts told him that the design of the rocket wasn't going to work and…

I can't imagine how anyone with the slightest clue could conclude that the first stage would sink the barge. The scales are just too different; the barge outweighs the rocket by orders of magnitude.

I hope this is one of those "lost in translation" things, because otherwise I fear for that group of supposed experts.

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