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Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

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Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#171

Post by circa »

Dwolb wrote: post #89
baldfat wrote: post #23

I owned a SMALL Record Label and Studio. I was (still?) good at picking out talent in bands. The Whole Industry Sucks I had two bands that ended up on Major Labels and Toured the World. I met a kid on the street wearing one of my Bands shirts and struck up a conversation. They still love the band 10 years later. These guys per person made at the TOP $7,000 in profit after expenses were paid. One band did a KickStarte…

Just a side note, I saw the founder of Pandora speak and he said their mission is to create a middle class for musicians by making it easier to discover, listen, and support non-hit artists. I'm not sure if their plan had a broader strategy, but I felt the vision was at least admirable due to its mission beyond just firm profits.

I find that hard to believe when they have the largest listener database and the smallest "song" database. When compared against the competition.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#172

Post by S_A_P »

riprowan wrote: post #151
Dwolb wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a side note, I saw the founder of Pandora speak and he said their mission is to create a middle class for musicians by making it easier to discover, listen, and support non-hit artists. I'm not sure if their plan had a broader strategy, but I felt the vision was at least admirable due to its mission beyond just firm profits.

As a non-hit artist, married to a non-hit artist, and who's produced a bevy of non-hit artists, I can say that roughly none of a non-hit artist's income is likely to come from Pandora / Pandora discovery. At $0.0001/stream typical, Pandora itself cannot ever add up to meaningful income for a non-hit artist. Most of the income for the non-hit artist will come from that core group of committed fans who buy everything t…

You wouldnt happen to be the Rip Rowan of ProRec.com would you? miss that site...

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#173

Post by hardwaresofton »

rmason wrote: post #163

Spoken with all the honesty that I've come to expect from Steve Miller. Absolutely love that cranky old man telling the truth. Question is why haven't the artists spoken out about the hall of fame over the years? Note some are backing him up now.

Bigger question might be why record companies still exist in such a similar form to when they were first introduced/at their most powerful?. I'm starting to think that they might actually be a necessity, whether it comes to them offering:

- Marketing/Promotion

- Distribution

- A barrier to entry for new artists

I've wonder why a service that just let people sell their own MP3s and albums (+/- streaming) on the internet is not enough (assuming the other things a record company offers were split up and handled by other focused companies).

My overly optimistic side thinks it's just a matter of no one having built a service that is transparently, obviously, and enforcably out to do nothing but enable musicians to distribute their own material and profit, but skeptical me is well... skeptical.

It's such a nuanced conversation, I wonder if there are any correspondences between someone from tech and someone from the music biz that I could read.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#174

Post by matt_morgan »

baldfat wrote: post #23

I owned a SMALL Record Label and Studio. I was (still?) good at picking out talent in bands. The Whole Industry Sucks I had two bands that ended up on Major Labels and Toured the World. I met a kid on the street wearing one of my Bands shirts and struck up a conversation. They still love the band 10 years later. These guys per person made at the TOP $7,000 in profit after expenses were paid. One band did a KickStarte…

You mean Jesse Smith? Jeff Gretz (current drummer) is the nicest/coolest/most talented drummer ever.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#175

Post by mapgrep »

Important context for the hostility toward the interviewer: The founder and publisher of Rolling Stone, Jann Wenner, is also the chairman and founder of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, which Miller was railing against.

(Wenner didn't do the interview, of course; he just pays and publishes whoever did.)

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#176

Post by specialist »

riprowan wrote: post #151
Dwolb wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a side note, I saw the founder of Pandora speak and he said their mission is to create a middle class for musicians by making it easier to discover, listen, and support non-hit artists. I'm not sure if their plan had a broader strategy, but I felt the vision was at least admirable due to its mission beyond just firm profits.

As a non-hit artist, married to a non-hit artist, and who's produced a bevy of non-hit artists, I can say that roughly none of a non-hit artist's income is likely to come from Pandora / Pandora discovery. At $0.0001/stream typical, Pandora itself cannot ever add up to meaningful income for a non-hit artist. Most of the income for the non-hit artist will come from that core group of committed fans who buy everything t…

As a discovery tool Pandora's value is debatable.

Curation works better than recommenders.

To my great surprise, I continue to discover new acts, music thru the radio. Just like when I was kid.

KBCS.fm and KEXP.org have great speciality shows. They also do a good job of posting their play lists, streaming archives, linking to artists, promoting upcoming shows, etc.

I've rarely discovered new stuff from a recommender (Pandora, last.fm, whatever). Now I don't even bother.

But I do rediscover music (from my youth) via YouTube. Which is a delight.

If mining radio playlists stops working for me, I'd be willing to try something like Apple Beat's notion.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#177

Post by amelius »

Le_SDT wrote: post #121
theseatoms wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does your dysfunctional relationship with social media have to do with producing works of art? I honestly just didn't follow your train of thought. The arts have to be their own reward. If you're making art for money, and not the love, it's probably not worth doing. For better or worse, the marketplace is finally realizing this.

I do not agree with that. When I produce music of coarse I feel good with what I did and of coarse I enjoy listening to it. The art is what makes me happy. But god I would have loved to make money with my passion. Some people are passionated by numbers, some by art. In the end it's a product and if you want to make money with it it is fine.

To make someone else happy, teach them how to make music themselves, rather than giving them your music ;)

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#178

Post by ukyrgf »

dudifordMann wrote: post #14

I always thought the age of the internet, especially with modern bandwidths, could be the end of large labels for the music industry (or publishing houses for literature). I understand (to a naive degree) that the labels establish large networks, and complex licensing with public avenues like the radio or concert halls. It is also interesting that that most self published artists get the semi-derogatory term of "Indi…

It's interesting that you call the term indie semi-derogatory, when the article you're commenting on is about how the music industry is full of monsters. Shouldn't operating independently outside of it be celebrated?

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#179

Post by 6stringmerc »

halotrope wrote: post #143
baldfat wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was the Owner of the SMALL Label. My friend from college I worked at is a professional acoustic guitar musician. He makes 100% of his money playing guitar. He makes next to nothing from streaming, he says 1% from Pandora, Spotify and others. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo9kGHYn_bI

Wow, that must be one if the best guitar performances I have ever seen.

Then you may like Kaki King and/or Stanley Jordan as well. As a multi-decade player I can appreciate the technique and talent on display, I really can. However, the reason you haven't heard of him before, and others of a similar level of musicianship, is something that my Dad once told me: "Audiences don't like it when the music goes over their head." His point was that impressing other musicians is a very limited market - not trying to insult it, just being pragmatic.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#180

Post by orbitur »

coldtea wrote: post #147
rorykoehler wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>you can almost always get a tone similar to your target Therein lies the rub. You can't beat real circuits and valves especially when you're cranking it loud for a gig. The difference between the (admittedly pretty amazing) VST's and the real deal is the difference between sounding good and sounding great. Touring a band is still expensive. So much so that it was the difference between going on extensive global tour…

> Therein lies the rub. You can't beat real circuits and valves especially when you're cranking it loud for a gig. Actually you could very much can, and especially in a gig, where acoustics are not as perfect as at home with expensive hi-fi speakers. You'd be surprised how many top artists, with huge followings, use amp simulations and plugins both on stage and on their productions. > The difference between the (admi…

As an aside/complaint, I truly wish there was a way to emulate raw feedback. Back when I lived with my parents in the middle of nowhere, I could crank my tiny amp up to 10, put earmuffs on, and just let the noise wash over me when I crouched next to my amp. Now I'm in a house with a child, and no VST is going to give me that same thrill. I could perhaps buy an e-bow and stand near it when I'm soloing, but it won't be utter chaos.
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