Because of where I grew up (rural South and Appalachia), my native accent is something that I've learned to mask in all professional settings. It doesn't matter how immaculate my grammar is: in the profession of software engineering, southern accent = ignorant bigot who can't be trusted. People's biases, conscious or otherwise, are noticeable. The irony is that I practice "code switching", so basically my coworkers h…
Classism in America
171–180 of 341 posts
Re: Classism in America
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
Don't forget "flyover states", to be uttered in the same tone of disgust as "southerner"!
I got a bit of that when I moved to SF. It's harder to pin Midwesterners down by accent, though (city folks, anyway).
I've found that it's the keywords that indicate where people are from within the Midwest:
Is it soda or pop? Is it car-mel or care-uh-mel?
(I do linguistic stuff in my day job.)
Re: Classism in America
#173From the article: "Most people are very ignorant of the norms and values of the social classes more than one degree above or below their own." Somewhere, there must be a "how to" guide for social class. There's a questionnaire, but other than some meaningless content on Quora, not much guidance.[1] Where there is guidance, it's about language usage.[2] The classic on this being, of course, "My Fair Lady"[1]. This is…
Re: Classism in America
#174It's a bit disturbing to me how enthusiastically the SlaterStarCodex crowd latches onto this "fuck you, got mine" essay, gushing with praise and admiration about telling it like it is. The entire thing is a rationalization for the thinking illustrated in these quotes: > I feel the need for a disclaimer of sorts. I am writing about class and some of the injustices of classism, but I do not particularly pretend to posi…
>> I feel the need for a disclaimer of sorts. I am writing about class and some of the injustices of classism, but I do not particularly pretend to position myself as an enemy of classism: I'm pretty classist. And by "pretty classist", I don't mean in the sense of "Everybody's a Little Bit Racist" or "gee, internalized misogyny is hard to totally eradicate". No, I mean closer to Segregation and PUAs.
> The idea that "the Left" engages in "Orwellian double-think" with regards to class, is also pretty puzzling.
It is not at all puzzling that humans -- regardless of their gender, age, race, nationality -- are bound to identify themselves with particular set of groups to the pointing of "segregating" themselves (and their ways of thinking, mannerisms, etc) from other groups. Left's Orwellian double-think of "insisting the problem doesn't exist and shouldn't be spoken of" is but a cunning way some acculturated groups achieve the said segregation under a moral veil.
The only solution to all of this is to cease identifying once and for all, and treat one another as fellow human beings. It will however be eons before the LessWrong/SlaterStarCodex crowd can even get close to such a stage if they were to continue their current modus operandi.
Re: Classism in America
#175Re: Classism in America
#176Because of where I grew up (rural South and Appalachia), my native accent is something that I've learned to mask in all professional settings. It doesn't matter how immaculate my grammar is: in the profession of software engineering, southern accent = ignorant bigot who can't be trusted. People's biases, conscious or otherwise, are noticeable. The irony is that I practice "code switching", so basically my coworkers h…
I do the same thing. There's a particular way of speaking in the North of New Zealand that is associated with poor Maori - when I'm talking to my dad's family, I switch back to talking like that. I mask it in almost all other situations, but it's caught a few friends out at times. One told me it was like talking to a completely different person. My dad is a tradesperson, and his influence is the one thing I have neve…
Re: Classism in America
#177Thus social class and economic class are not identical, they are intersectional. They relate and they mediate one another, but they are not the same thing. And both of these are not identical to race in the US, but their perception is indeed still partially mediated by race.
If you are studying in an Ivy League tier university in the US and your parents know influential people in major companies, you are incredibly privileged. And as the article lays out, this actually reflects two forms of privilege: social class and economic class (of parents, close family, potential love interests and eventually yourself as an aggregate).
The number of trans, non-male, non-white or non-heterosexual founders and leaders in major tech companies gets talked about every now and then. But I doubt any of those (proportional to the absolute distribution across the population) is significantly more concerning than the number of people from lower social and economical classes in the same roles.
Of course these attributes can compound (e.g. "race" is often used as a handle for social class) but diversity needs to take all factors into account in order to fulfil its promise. Nepotism isn't just about skin colour and dangly bits, and class discrimination is far easier to hide behind "culture fit" than other forms of discrimination.
Re: Classism in America
#178Earlier quoted context omitted.
I got a bit of that when I moved to SF. It's harder to pin Midwesterners down by accent, though (city folks, anyway).
Part of that is because Chicago is considered the baseline "accent" for many news broadcasters, radio personalities, etc. As a result, most Americans have heard that accent their entire life and therefore don't really interpret it as all that different. I've found that it's the keywords that indicate where people are from within the Midwest: Is it soda or pop? Is it car-mel or care-uh-mel? (I do linguistic stuff in m…
Re: Classism in America
#179Being from Europe, I was also weirded out that almost all discussions of class in the US was about money. To me, the separation of economic class and social class is clearer than to the average American. But, the same rules of "invisibility" apply where I'm from. Whenever I've talked to my upper-middle class friends about what social class they belong to, they are completely clueless. They don't know they belong to i…
You say class isn't about money, and I suppose it shouldn't be. Maybe they think class is about something even worse than money and they don't want any part of it.
> Whenever I've talked to my upper-middle class friends about what social class they belong to, they are completely clueless. They don't know they belong to it, they don't know others don't, and they completely subscribe to the "we're all just regular middle class" mentality.
Re: Classism in America
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
When I moved to New York City after living in Florida and North Carolina, I was really surprised at the blatant bigotry here. I've had people respected in this industry for their open mindedness look at me without irony and ask me if it's really as bad as everyone "down there" calling everyone else ... (looks around nervously) ... the N-word. Todd Barry has a great bit on this (language might be offensive to some) ht…
I had an opposite experience - I moved to Louisiana from a northern state and was shocked at the amount of racism and bigotry openly displayed. While looking in to buying a house I was told but multiple realtors to avoid certain areas because they are "too black." Also I distinctly remember seeing a bumper sticker that deriding mixed race relationships that ended with "don't be a race-mixing slut." Absolutely blew my…
Besides racism, that's also a way to say "too poor/downtrodden/crime ridden".
To which, they would indeed have a point (statistics wise), although that of course is caused by the systemic injustice and lack of opportunities against blacks for centuries.
Also notice how people still say the exact same thing about "white trash" places in the North (and South), and nobody seems to mind, because while the US got more tolerant about race, they still don't give a rats arse about classism and social exclusion based on being poor and not a "success".