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Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities

bloomberg.com

171–180 of 272 posts

Re: Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always thought that Canada's low pay was balanced by their universal healthcare. No ?

Healthcare is often provided by the U.S. employer anyways, so I guess it's a wash in that case.

If we're addressing the said healthcare only nominally then yes, it may be discarded from the list of considerations.

Re: Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities

#172
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that Canada or anywhere else in the world has humiliatingly low salaries, it's just that the USA has such strong regulations on skilled immigration, that the wages for developers are artificially inflated. Most other countries, when faced with a shortage of workers in an industry, prioritise them over everyone else. In New Zealand, you need a certain amount of points to immigrate, and being in a high demand…

"the wages for developers are artificially inflated" The wages are reasonable given extremely strict "culture fit" requirements. Must be male, must be white, must be under 30 with precisely 1-3 years experience never more or less, must be an ivy grad or close equiv, must perform well in hazing rituals like the whiteboard interview, must tolerate sweatshop working conditions, etc etc etc. I mean, if you want to hire d…

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Re: Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities

#173
post #67

As someone who's lived in Vancouver for more than 10 years, then went to Waterloo for school (and lived in Toronto for most of my co-ops/internships), I think we Canadians should be more worried about highly educated millennials fleeing Canada entirely. Everybody I know from school who were offered the option to work in the US have picked up their Canadian degrees and left. To the Canadian tech industry: How are you…

Disclaimer: grew up in Ontario, studied at UWaterloo, then worked at BB, then worked in London, UK for 2 years, and now moving to Silicon Valley on a TN visa. I wouldn't worry _too_ much about the brain drain. Sure the US is more lucrative for young people, but I would say Canada is more lucrative for families. Consider the public schools in Canada vs in the US, and cost of a UW degree vs a comparable university degr…

So the consolation is what? That although people will flee to spend their best years elsewhere and sell their potential there at least they'll come back to Canada so their younglings will benefit as they did from the better formative conditions?

Re: Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities

#174
I think it's likely that tech in Vancouver is having trouble hiring and retaining as millenials flee to SF, where they can get paid dramatically more, but in general Vancouver is seeing net gains in millenials.

I have no idea how Bloomberg made their chart but using census and BC stats data no one has been able to reproduce it.

This UBC sociology prof crunched BCStats numbers and found that there is net positive millenial migration into Vancouver.

https://homefreesociology.wordpress.com/2016/03/16/ch-ch-ch-...

This doesn't change the fact that the unaffordability situation in Vancouver is deeply problematic and is probably accelerating a brain drain to the USA.

Re: Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities

#175

As someone who's lived in Vancouver for more than 10 years, then went to Waterloo for school (and lived in Toronto for most of my co-ops/internships), I think we Canadians should be more worried about highly educated millennials fleeing Canada entirely. Everybody I know from school who were offered the option to work in the US have picked up their Canadian degrees and left. To the Canadian tech industry: How are you…

According to the article real estate costs in Vancouver are half that of San Francisco. Are salaries half too?

> The price of a typical Vancouver home rose 21 percent to C$775,300 ($584,290) in January from a year earlier, according to the city’s real estate board.

The costs quoted in the article are a bit vague. If one were to assume that by "Vancouver home", she was referring to a "house" located within the city of Vancouver, you would be in for a rude awakening. Average house price is pushing 2M and what that will buy you is a place to tear down in what was/is the less desirable part of the city.

If your talking a 1 bedroom condo in the city, 500k will get you started and the 775k quoted will get you something a bit above the basics.

When you can figure out how your going to pay that mortgage with your "Vancouver tech" salary, and still be able to afford to live, I'm all ears :)

Re: Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities

#176

As someone who's lived in Vancouver for more than 10 years, then went to Waterloo for school (and lived in Toronto for most of my co-ops/internships), I think we Canadians should be more worried about highly educated millennials fleeing Canada entirely. Everybody I know from school who were offered the option to work in the US have picked up their Canadian degrees and left. To the Canadian tech industry: How are you…

According to the article real estate costs in Vancouver are half that of San Francisco. Are salaries half too?

The ~$700k number the article cites takes into account condos.

If you're only looking at detached houses then Vancouver is as expensive as SF if not more expensive. The median price is $1.3 million in the east side and $3.2 in the west side.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/ho...

Salaries are nowhere close to SF salaries. This is why Vancouver is one of the most unaffordable cities in the world.

Re: Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities

#177

As someone who's lived in Vancouver for more than 10 years, then went to Waterloo for school (and lived in Toronto for most of my co-ops/internships), I think we Canadians should be more worried about highly educated millennials fleeing Canada entirely. Everybody I know from school who were offered the option to work in the US have picked up their Canadian degrees and left. To the Canadian tech industry: How are you…

Is the question that Canadian companies genuinely can't pay more, or just that they won't, for whatever reason?

Well, in the case of Toronto, I make a better salary relative to the cost of living (all things considered -- rent, health care, insurance) than I could make in SF or NY at the moment. Taxes in Cali aren't that different from Ontario, but the cost of living is nuts (and for the most part astonishingly suburban). Even if I could get slightly more money, I'd lose a lot of quality of life because my entire network is here. Personally, the idea of dropping my entire life for a pay cheque would necessitate a substantial increase in pay.

I think companies pay what the market will bear, and enough people feel the same way I do.

Re: Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities

#178

As someone who's lived in Vancouver for more than 10 years, then went to Waterloo for school (and lived in Toronto for most of my co-ops/internships), I think we Canadians should be more worried about highly educated millennials fleeing Canada entirely. Everybody I know from school who were offered the option to work in the US have picked up their Canadian degrees and left. To the Canadian tech industry: How are you…

> Everybody I know from school who were offered the option to work in the US have picked up their Canadian degrees and left. This is what young people do; they adventure. Then, many times, they come back to their roots to settle down. I'm sure there're a few people around these parts with anecdata regarding the joys of finding housing and raising a family in the SF Bay Area.

How will they come back if there isn't a tech scene waiting for them?

Re: Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities

#179

I see this as a problem all over the world. - San Francisco, Seattle, New York, Vancouver, London, Oslo... Really the list could go on for quite a while. So many of these cities feel like they have to retain their "identity" or the "feel" of the town, so they set restrictions that make it very hard to develop properties that can hold more people. The result is always the same: continually increasing prices in the cen…

Vancouver has various restrictions just like any town, but in general it would be incorrect to state that they restrict construction or don't build high density buildings. Comparing a photo of 1990s downtown Vancouver to now it is shocking how many glassy residential towers there are now. Vancouver and its satellite cities are constantly building new condo buildings.

I suppose you can always argue that a city can build more, but I've seen more construction cranes in Vancouver than just about any city I've ever visited.

I think more dominant issues that have influenced the price of Vancouver housing is low interest rates, lax lending rules, government policies that promote home ownership and speculation, and the influx of foreign capital.

Re: Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities

#180
This seems to be a direct result of capital flight from China. Wealthy chinese who are able to get their money out (through corruption, money laundering, or otherwise) are looking for somewhere safe to park their money for the inevitable decline in value of the yuan. China can only artificially peg their money to the dollar for so long, until they run out of dollars, and they are drawing down their reserves at a record pace due to the appreciation of the dollar.

Wealthy chinese know this, and use real estate in markets such as Vancouver, SF, and NYC, because it's fairly low risk and likely to appreciate. See http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/01/13/462994857/... and http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/14/us/us-will-track-secret-bu...

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