Earlier quoted context omitted.
Had a friend that literally had no money for food in this time (2002, actually).
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Ever see Office Space? How much do you think those programmers made? Can't even afford a stapler on that salary.
Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.
171–180 of 428 posts
Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
Say you're a support person working at IBM in Dubuque, Iowa, where local and state taxpayers spent $50M to lure IBM in a delusion of becoming a tech hub. [1] You specialize in Lotus Notes support for local businesses like Hormel. Last year, IBM laid off 2/3 of their Dubuque workforce, 700 people, in a city of 60,000. More than 1% of the population. Your only skill is Notes, same as dozens of other people that were la…
But you take that risk moving to a no-tech area. The best solution is to not put yourself in a position you need to get out of. And if that means the next Dubuque company needs to be offering million dollar salaries to engineers to get commit themselves out there - since there would be no other opportunities and you would be stuck, so you better have a massive nest egg after five years - then so be it.
But there are many situations what you get yourself into that seem like a good idea at the time. It's impossible to make predictions about future events. The IBM employees getting laid off here are not responsible for the corporate decisions to outsource their jobs, and don't deserve the blame.
Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.
#173Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.
#174Here's what I don't get... If you have any options at all, why stay at a company with sub-par technology that abuses their workers? They've been stuck in low 3 Glassdoor [0] range for a while. It's layoff after layoff as they slowly dismantle the company. Why stay? Geographic limitations? Narrow skillsets? [0] https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/IBM-Reviews-E354.htm#trend...
Most IBMers get great benefits (great 401K plan, great health insurance, etc), and the running joke was to rather wait and get laid off to receive the generous severance package (which used to be 6 month's salary plus 12 months continued health insurance).
However, given the new severance only being 1 month's salary leaves them with less incentive to wait. Of course, the really good ones have already left anyway (money isn't the prime motivation there), but the folks remaining there, especially the ones who will have to pick up the slack (more work, same pay) will have much less incentive then previously.
Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.
#175During the dot-com bust of the early 2000s, I was working at a super-market. One of the guys stocking shelves was a software engineer laid off by a large company after 40 years. The management at Winn Dixie put him stacking boxes in the freezer section...since they knew he needed the money and wouldn't quit. Maybe he deserved to get fired, maybe he didn't. The lesson to me that has been reinforced over my career in t…
And learn how to job search. There's surely a better job that guy could have found.
Maybe not. There is more age discrimination in software than in other areas. But around 2000, it was out of control. There were fewer jobs and everyone wanted to hire "the kids in the garage" type developers. If he was engineer-management he definitely wasnt needed because everyone was cutting down tech teams to a minimum. Many out-sourced their software jobs to India at this time. Some just got rid of those positions altogether just in case this Internet thing turned out to be a fad. It was a very confusing time. Just before the burst, kids couldnt figure out why companies wanted to hire them but dropped out of school to go for it anyway. After the burst loads of younger programmers went to law school for no reason and lots of older programmers went to work at bookstores to keep the lights on.
Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.
#176Earlier quoted context omitted.
Damn English and its lack of gender non-specific pronouns! Seriously, though... what is the implication that I am missing? What is the point of bringing up the CEO's pay? Should it be government mandated, is that what you all believe?
Singular "they" is gender-neutral and grammatically correct, I don't know why more people don't use it.
I don't know why people dismiss it "because it sounds a little funny to me", but are okay with abominations like "he/she" or "zhe"...
Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.
#177Earlier quoted context omitted.
When you're at will, it doesn't. When you are covered by a collective bargaining agreement and contract, it happens all of the time. In my city, when the administration introduced unsafe conditions and unpopular schedule changes the firefighters union picketed the home of the mayor and fire chief, and successfully sued. A friend worked for a manufacturing company where the Union sued over chronic and egregious misman…
Wonder why more software jobs are not unionized? Hollywood and move industry has some of that. Teacher, pilots, firefighters do it.
There are downsides too. Some perceived, some real.
Unions are all about tenure. When the shit hits the fan, the young people lose. Pay scale is generally based on tenure as well.
Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.
#178Earlier quoted context omitted.
Among other factors mentioned: employer-specific skillsets. Technology jobs are very highly specialised. And I'm not just speaking of computer tech. I'm old enough to have seen several generations of obsoleted "gold tickets". Nuclear Engineering, future destroyed March 28, 1979. Freeway engineers, the freeway protests of the 1960s/1970s. Big Three auto manufacturers, dream destroyed with the first oil embargo, and su…
>It's not that these people are dumb, many were brilliant. But they're also laden with a tremendous amount of arcane knowledge, that, unfortunately, gets in the way of learning new skills. I don't use the term "brilliant" for anyone who can't learn outside their narrow specialty.
There's a middle ground to what he's saying. Once you MASTER something that all your life has been in demand and incredibly lucrative, it becomes hard to believe that completely pivoting away from that knowledge is your best course of action. I believe in most cases these down turns seem temporarily, a short storm to weather with a small reduction in pay until things get going again (see Big 3 auto). Unfortunately things just keep spiraling downwards and by the time you realize it, it is too late.
Definitely such short sightedness and stubbornness can be associated with brilliance.
Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
Damn English and its lack of gender non-specific pronouns! Seriously, though... what is the implication that I am missing? What is the point of bringing up the CEO's pay? Should it be government mandated, is that what you all believe?
Singular "they" is gender-neutral and grammatically correct, I don't know why more people don't use it.
People probably don't use it because at every English school in non English-speaking countries, they teach you that "they" is for plural only. I had personally never heard until recently that "they" could be singular too. It also really sounds weird to a French like me.
Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
She.
Damn English and its lack of gender non-specific pronouns! Seriously, though... what is the implication that I am missing? What is the point of bringing up the CEO's pay? Should it be government mandated, is that what you all believe?
You haven't been following IBM then. 2010-2015 was "Roadmap 2015" during which the principal goal of the CEO was to bring earnings per share up to $20. It's 2016, and the EPS is still only $10. In the process, they've issued countless share buyback programs, fired anything that looked like it might be earning less than the average required, and sold the rest at firesale prices. For example, they paid GlobalFoundries 1.5 billion to take their POWER chip fabs and run them. IBM's notable for their government services, and they lost a cloud computing contract with the CIA to Amazon, and filed suit, only to be found against publicly as 'not actually a cloud computing service.' So they bought Softlayer, which incidentally, doesn't have the profit margins they would have needed for ye olde Roadmap. Bloomberg Businessweek went so far as to describe the executive strategy in 2014 as "financial engineering."
Given the complete failure to achieve not only value for shareholders, but their own fucking stated goals, it seems reasonable to question exactly what the executive team is paid and why.