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SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

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Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#171

Post by leshow »

Lawtonfogle wrote: post #72
Afforess wrote: post #9

To play devil's advocate, he's right. He shouldn't have to see the pain, struggle, and despair of homeless - the city government should be providing affordable housing and shelters for the homeless. That it hasn't is a failure of the local government, and should be addressed. Much of the reason that affordable housing is out of reach of many in San Francisco is due to government regulation, not market capitalism. Ext…

>the city government should be providing affordable housing and shelters for the homeless. This helps the short term homeless. Long term homeless often have problems that can't be met just by giving them housing.

by definition giving them housing would make them not homeless.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#172

Post by duairc »

Okay, I think we can all agree this guy is an asshole, and surely doesn't represent the views of most techies in San Francisco, right?

Obviously it's fucked that so many people are homeless in San Francisco. Everybody blames us (techies with loads of money) for the homeless problem because we gentrifying the shit out of the place with all our money. And then this guy comes out and says this shit, and that only reinforces the narrative that we're the problem. And that's shit for us.

But why don't we do something about it? We don't want to be seen as the cause of the homeless problem, and surely we don't want assholes like this speaking for us. But people are right that we are rich compares to most people. Why not use this as an opportunity to show people that we can be part of the solution? Being rich doesn't have to make us evil, and anyway what's the point of being rich if we can't use our wealth to help the people who need it?

And it's not just our wealth: what about our skills? Take Homes Not Jails, for example. They're one organisation off the top of my head that does work that directly houses homeless people. They're renowned by squatters all over the world for the work they do to get homes for homeless people in San Francisco. But I just checked, and it looks like their website (http://homesnotjailssf.org/) is down? Surely one of us techies could get in contact with them and offer to help fix their website, or even just pay their hosting costs and domain name renewal for a few years? I've been involved in organisations like that and that kind of stuff can be a real hassle.

I'm sure there are countless grassroots organisations like this that are already working to help homeless people that probably don't even have proper websites and shit, that desperately need money. Fuck this guy, it's not worth wasting our time arguing over his stupid words. Let's show people that he doesn't represent us with our actions!

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#173

Post by leshow »

x1024 wrote: post #161
Afforess wrote: post #9

To play devil's advocate, he's right. He shouldn't have to see the pain, struggle, and despair of homeless - the city government should be providing affordable housing and shelters for the homeless. That it hasn't is a failure of the local government, and should be addressed. Much of the reason that affordable housing is out of reach of many in San Francisco is due to government regulation, not market capitalism. Ext…

Yep, he's right. But like many a programmer, he just does not have a way with words.

he's not right. his position is that he shouldn't have to 'see' homelessness. he doesn't care if it exists or not, just so long as it's out of his view.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#174

Post by mikeash »

joeguilmette wrote: post #140

I was in Chinatown talking to my grandmother on my cellphone. A homeless person walked up and punched me in the face. SF has the worst homeless problem I've ever seen in the first world, and it rivals the worst of what I've seen in the third world. It's a disgrace and it sucks and I don't have to like it. Whatever the local/state government is doing isn't working. And sure, maybe a lot of the homeless are just normal…

Your post made me realize that most of the complaints in this open letter aren't about homelessness, they're about crime. Quickly re-reading it, I see fights, indecent exposure, public disturbances, trespassing, harassment, assault.

If this author had merely eliminated all mention of homelessness and replaced it with discussion of crime and criminals, it would have ditched all the heartless idiocy while still getting to the problems they care about.

If a lot of homeless people are violent criminals then IMO the relevant question for that particular aspect is not why homeless people are allowed to live on the streets, but why violent criminals aren't being arrested and prosecuted. The fact that they're homeless is irrelevant.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#175

Post by Shivetya »

tim333 wrote: post #88
monkmartinez wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a complex issue... but in my experience, most of the homeless are not looking for help to find jobs and/or contribute to society in manner that will lead them out of "homelessness." A lot of them prefer this "lifestyle"... we try very hard to help the people that want help. Most don't. Go talk to your local EMS/Fire department personnel and most of them will have similar stories. I know the homeless people in…

The issue my be complex but you don't see the same thing in most of Europe or Canada which suggests it's not immune to government action.

You really need to read up on the issue more then. Even a simple browsing of Wikipedia will show the statement is wrong. What is primarily different is reporting by news sources. If the US is nearing a million or two homeless (numbers reported are lower) for the size of its population how does that put it in perspective of Canada listing around three hundred thousand out of thirty five million people. The EU reports nearly three million.

Worse is the homeless situation in third world countries where even less services are available. Being homeless in a Western nation is far different than anywhere else. It may be exaggerated in SF and LA simply because of two reasons, climate and more support for those in need. So the city may actually being doing a good job but is simply attracting more people because they are

tl;dr do not for a moment think that homelessness isn't as bad issue elsewhere, let alone countries where the US is equal to economically.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#176

Post by ryanlol »

Wow. This is article was a completely disgusting read.

It's a straight up ad-hominem attack against Justin Keller, instead of criticising his writing it attacks his character.

I sincerely hope this is the end of Michael E. Millers career as a reporter.

And before you downvote me, read the article and focus on the parts that aren't quotes. The author goes to great lengths to paint Keller as an asshole while completely ignoring what he actually wrote.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#178

Post by monkmartinez »

a-saleh wrote: post #131
monkmartinez wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a complex issue... but in my experience, most of the homeless are not looking for help to find jobs and/or contribute to society in manner that will lead them out of "homelessness." A lot of them prefer this "lifestyle"... we try very hard to help the people that want help. Most don't. Go talk to your local EMS/Fire department personnel and most of them will have similar stories. I know the homeless people in…

Sometimes I feel this "most of them prefer the way it is" is just a way to make excuses for us not solving a problem. For example in my city of ~ quarter mil. people, there are approximately 1000 people living on the streets and another 1000 without home (no adress, permanently living in hostels, people in prisons that no longer have home). Currently I know that there is project that focuses on the families without h…

Maybe, but funding new programs for homeless/mentally ill is problematic for a lot of reasons; A lot municipalities have budget problems with structural deficits. This puts pressure on basic infrastructure like roads, water, and sewer. Public transportation is under severe stress due to the budgets. Public safety agencies have been relying on grants (SAFER) from the fed to get basic needs met as the cities are tapped out. Government employees in my area haven't had a raise in 10 years while the costs for insurance, medicare, and everything else has gone up more than 10%. To put it bluntly, asking voters to approve bonds/money for homeless will go over like a turd in a punch bowl.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#179

Post by Lawtonfogle »

jimmytucson wrote: post #149
Afforess wrote: post #9

To play devil's advocate, he's right. He shouldn't have to see the pain, struggle, and despair of homeless - the city government should be providing affordable housing and shelters for the homeless. That it hasn't is a failure of the local government, and should be addressed. Much of the reason that affordable housing is out of reach of many in San Francisco is due to government regulation, not market capitalism. Ext…

> To play devil's advocate, he's right. You're not really agreeing with him though, are you? He's saying homeless people are an eyesore. You're saying the government should create more homeless shelters. I don't think you guys are even on the same planet in terms of your views.

>He's saying homeless people are an eyesore. You're saying the government should create more homeless shelters.

I think the difference is found in empathy. Take two cases: One, I feel bad when I see a homeless person because my empathy makes me feel bad, and I want to remove that bad feeling and thus I help them. Getting them 'out of sight' might reduce the bad feeling a little, but any time I think of their being homeless people, I still feel bad for them.

Two, I feel bad because the homeless person is making the place look worse. So I want them to be gone. Once they are out of sight, I no longer feel bad.

I think the two above are more similar that many people treat them because of how selfishness and empathy interact, but I do also think their is still a significant difference because one is based off of empathy and the other is based off of pure selfishness.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#180

Post by joosters »

refurb wrote: post #100
joosters wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how many people are going to pay more taxes to raise the money for the government to do all these things? In the end, it still comes back to the people. It's not the government's fault.

San Francisco has a $156M annual budget to address homelessness. That's not a small amount of money. First let's make sure that it's being spend efficiently.

Most of which is spent on rent, so it ends up in the pockets of the landowners. And it doesn't go as far as it needs, thanks to the crazy high rents. It's a vicious circle.
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