MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms” • Hacker News Board

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#171

Post by gtk40 » Thu, Jan 28, 2016, 9:12 PM UTC

fokov wrote: post #62

Pharaoh2 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But everyone should go to high school. Hell, if you aren't going to college I do hope there is an extended high school. I don't care if its taxpayer sponsored but even high school is not enough to foster a critical thinking process. I picked that up somewhere between high school and end of college. Some people may be faster than me but that skill is really important. Either that, or you don't get to vote. Edit: The l…

In my opinion, the problem with high school is due to the large amount of wasted time. So many classes had dozens of days if not the large majority of the time spent on nothing or busy work. Busy work is a large part of bureaucratic organizations where most of the cogs will end up, but it shouldn't be the goal. I think many high school courses could be pushed down into earlier education and a great deal of knowledge…

I think some schools are adopting new models, but when I graduated from high school <10 years ago, all but a handful of classes were two semesters long (i.e., autumn and spring would be the same class) and all classes met 5 days a week for approximately an hour, with 7 classes a day. With 180 days of school, with most classes meeting every day of that (save exam time), that is over a thousand hours spent per class.

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#172

Post by gravypod » Thu, Jan 28, 2016, 9:14 PM UTC

brodawg wrote: post #158

gravypod wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I get into my classes at my university I get the textbook, read into the book a little and say "ok, I remember learning about this from X, Y, and Z project I've worked on". I then go on to goof off in every class, as I am doing right this moment. Nothing I have learned is of substance in my algorithms, computer science, or programming classes that I did not already know before I enrolled. I'm bored, and I want t…

Well, maybe if you listened in class you would realize the benefit of what they're trying to teach you. If you really think you can understand complexity theory, algorithms, and advanced data structures in "an afternoon or two", I think about 90% of it went right over your head.

I don't mean you can understand the full depth of each topic in an afternoon or two, I mean at a working level you could get an understanding of the topic.

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#173

Post by kamaal » Thu, Jan 28, 2016, 9:18 PM UTC

finid wrote: post #168

kamaal wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add to this, as a student in India, I would often run across people who thought Bill Gates was an Idiot. Not sure from where that caricature arose. But some people simply hated Bill Gates, and believed he didn't deserve to be the richest person in the world. I'd have to talk to them and explain he was a work horse extraordinaire, and was the equivalent of great project manager, programmer, and a business guy all r…

Nobody I know hates GW because he's successful. They do, because of the mess he got us in. Yes, he was led to taking the actions he took by smarter and more devious people around him, but the ultimate responsibility was with him, or on him. He was the president.

I don't know about US politics. But I have seen people unjustifiably bash successful people. In fact, this is the common place ideology in today's feel-good culture to deride other people, to make their own shortcomings look acceptable.

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#174

Post by mietek » Thu, Jan 28, 2016, 9:22 PM UTC

finid wrote: post #165

bitwize wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't much like his policies, but I always had a big question mark in my mind when it came to Bush's raw intelligence. He spoke like a man who didn't know how to speak in public, not like someone who was ignorant or addled. There was a peculiar absent-mindedness to his gaffes ("misunderestimate", "is our children learning") and so forth but it had a more "way out of his element" feel rather than coming from a place…

> He spoke like a man who didn't know how to speak in public, not like someone who was ignorant or addled. His problem went beyond not knowing how to speak in public, which, by itself, is not a sign of not being intelligent. He was truly very dull, something he himself admitted to ("I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed"). Aside from that, if you passed through college, then through grad school and always referred to…

> He was truly very dull, something he himself admitted

You may wish to rethink this.

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#175

Post by selimthegrim » Thu, Jan 28, 2016, 9:32 PM UTC

gravypod wrote: post #125

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Five physics classes? Really? So... what subjects are those? Because you should definitely be taking at least a little physics and quite a lot of math.

I can opt out of the physics, but I'd have to take something like chemistry or biology. I'm taking the physics route because I feel that will benefit me specifically based on the carries that I'd like. I just rechecked, I think I need to take Biophysics, Astronomy, and nuclear physics with 1 bridge class between the three. Why? Because. I'd love to take the nuclear physics because that sounds fun, but and biophysics…

I'd pass on the nuclear physics, biophysics is where it's at these days. (Now if you meant particle physics you might have a point). But nuclear physics itself is kind of considered as a field whose heyday is past.

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#176

Post by danieltillett » Thu, Jan 28, 2016, 9:38 PM UTC

tanker wrote: post #86

I like the idea of project based learning. I think it will end up being a more lasting method of instruction. I am interested in how they will still teach the breadth of the subject matter. For example, you can get a lot of work done with linear algebra without really understanding vector spaces. I assume this method of instruction would require more teacher-student interaction to be effective. The teacher could revi…

Yes you are right. This sort of teaching is very effective, but very expensive. The reason we have the current system we do is because it is the cheapest solution that somewhat works.

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#177

Post by gravypod » Thu, Jan 28, 2016, 9:43 PM UTC

selimthegrim wrote: post #175

gravypod wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can opt out of the physics, but I'd have to take something like chemistry or biology. I'm taking the physics route because I feel that will benefit me specifically based on the carries that I'd like. I just rechecked, I think I need to take Biophysics, Astronomy, and nuclear physics with 1 bridge class between the three. Why? Because. I'd love to take the nuclear physics because that sounds fun, but and biophysics…

I'd pass on the nuclear physics, biophysics is where it's at these days. (Now if you meant particle physics you might have a point). But nuclear physics itself is kind of considered as a field whose heyday is past.

Or I can take thermodynamics hate my life. I have a few options, I just don't like many of them.

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#178

Post by Inthenameofmine » Thu, Jan 28, 2016, 9:46 PM UTC

y4mi wrote: post #90

ucsdrake wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That used to be the case, but now corporations require you to pass their own exam before they hire you. You mean an ... interview?! Ok, that was purposely obtuse, but I don't see how an extension of a company's interview process (ensuring, through their own testing, that candidates meet the proper qualifications without school bias) is a bad thing. Or how it signals an 'inevitable disruption of modern higher ed'. W…

i'm from germany and never visited a good university ( so its entirely possible that none of this happens to graduates from mit, i dont know), but i'm pretty this is what he meant. i applied for several different companies for a pretty low position around 3 years ago. one of the companies was MAN and I had to pass a) an online test for preselection, b) a written exam on premises and finally b) an interview. i fucked…

European companies are a while other thing though. In most big EU corporations you get hired for position, not skill. The position is ranked relative to all other positions and your rank is determined through your school/education.

Case in point, it's very difficult to get hired to a German or Swiss company with a US engineering degree, regardless of the universities standing. I had to go through that myself, it's ridiculous.

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#179

Post by finid » Thu, Jan 28, 2016, 9:49 PM UTC

mietek wrote: post #174

finid wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He spoke like a man who didn't know how to speak in public, not like someone who was ignorant or addled. His problem went beyond not knowing how to speak in public, which, by itself, is not a sign of not being intelligent. He was truly very dull, something he himself admitted to ("I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed"). Aside from that, if you passed through college, then through grad school and always referred to…

> He was truly very dull, something he himself admitted You may wish to rethink this.

You'll have to give me good reasons to. No, downvoting is not one.

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#180

Post by brazzledazzle » Thu, Jan 28, 2016, 9:49 PM UTC

fao_ wrote: post #164

st3v3r wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So they give their experiences with many, many students that they've taught over the years, and you say it's not true because you're different?

I have also had the experience with infomally teaching ( read with a bias towards 'mentor' ) programming to people, along with the second hand experience of knowing numerous teachers, including my father. Along with this I was unschooled from the age of eleven, and I have seen the effects of this upon the children -- most notably with a child ( Eleven years of age ) teaching themselves to read to an adult level in ro…

My anecdotal experience brought me to similar conclusions. Structure is required in schools because of the way children are taught in schools. And I'm not sure I'd do any different given the same requirements. Even though it doesn't have the best results for every child it scales well enough that most people at least do okay.

Take your average child away from that after several years of being part of it and any short term observations are going to make you think structure is critical. Before they do anything else they're going to have to learn that they don't need structure to learn and after that they're going to have to learn how to teach and push themselves.