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Aaron Swartz died three years ago today

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Re: Aaron Swartz died three years ago today

#171

Post by ryanlol »

igravious wrote: post #83
gnaritas wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He didn't just do some silly illegal thing; he illegally hacked a network from a closet he should not have been in and hit it with so much traffic that he caused legitimate users of the network to suffer loss of access for multiple days and he did this multiple times after being kicked out. Legitimate users were harmed, regardless of what what anyone feels, Aaron committed a felony and was rightfully arrested. Beyond…

You can't say that it was wilful civil disobedience and then say that he went about it the wrong way, you contradict yourself as that's kind of the definition of civil disobedience. If you're saying that he ought not to been civilly disobedient then that's a different matter but what he did makes him a sort of modern-day hero. That he took his own life makes him a martyr in a weird kind of way. I know that hero and m…

No.

Swartz killing himself absolutely does not make him a martyr. Martyr is someone who is killed for their beliefs.

We don't know why Aaron killed himself, but I sure hope that he had a better reason than possibly spending a few months in prison.

Re: Aaron Swartz died three years ago today

#173

Post by mirimir »

ryanlol wrote: post #170
mirimir wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sci-Hub is gone.

I used it a couple of hours ago, sci-hub.io

Cool! I didn't realize that they had come back after their com domain was taken.

See https://torrentfreak.com/sci-hub-and-libgen-resurface-after-...

Re: Aaron Swartz died three years ago today

#174

Post by pluma »

ryanlol wrote: post #154
suprgeek wrote: post #130

MIT Failed him - spectacularly so. If they had declared that they had no wish to see him in prison and used their (considerable) influence he would be alive. Instead, this political, vindictive creature http://wgbhnews.org/post/carmen-ortiz-spotlight-under-fire and her nasty acolytes in search of a high profile "Scalp" pushed him over the edge. A terrible waste and a horrible use (misuse) of prosecutorial discretion.

>he would be alive. How do you know? Aaron had been talking about suicide years before this, maybe we should just blame reddit? Edit: Why the downvotes? Fact is that we don't know why Aaron killed himself, but we do know that he had a prior history of depression and in 2007 posted what seemed very much like a suicide note. Frankly, making claims like "If x had (not) done y he'd still be alive" and presenting them as…

We don't know whether he would still be alive.

We do know he wouldn't have been in the situation in which he ended his life.

Claiming that victims of depression who have killed themselves would have killed themselves anyway is no less disgusting.

Re: Aaron Swartz died three years ago today

#175

Post by ryanlol »

pluma wrote: post #174
ryanlol wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>he would be alive. How do you know? Aaron had been talking about suicide years before this, maybe we should just blame reddit? Edit: Why the downvotes? Fact is that we don't know why Aaron killed himself, but we do know that he had a prior history of depression and in 2007 posted what seemed very much like a suicide note. Frankly, making claims like "If x had (not) done y he'd still be alive" and presenting them as…

We don't know whether he would still be alive. We do know he wouldn't have been in the situation in which he ended his life. Claiming that victims of depression who have killed themselves would have killed themselves anyway is no less disgusting.

We really don't know how much of an effect MIT declaring that they don't want Swartz in prison would've had on his prosecution, speculating on that is rather pointless anyway since we never got to hear his sentence.

I never made such a claim. I specifically brought up the previous depression to make clear that we really don't know what was going on his life and what ended up driving him over the edge.

Re: Aaron Swartz died three years ago today

#176

Post by pluma »

gnaritas wrote: post #48
wolfgke wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He wouldn't have attempted suicide if he hadn't been confronted with the merciless system of prosecution.

He didn't have to commit suicide, that was his choice , you cannot blame his choice on those prosecuting him. People get prosecuted every day and serve time and don't go and kill themselves. He was not murdered. Murder means an unlawful killing; prosecutors did not unlawfully kill Aaron, he did that himself.

Calling it a choice is misleading.

He was suffering from depression and suicidal ideation. He wasn't in a sound state of mind necessary to make a choice about killing himself. He died from depression. The circumstances merely contributed to that.

The reasoning behind the "murder" rhetoric isn't entirely wrong. That he wasn't treated any different from any other suspect doesn't mean the way he was treated didn't contribute to his death.

If a suspect dies from law enforcement SOP due to a pre-existing health condition (e.g. tackling someone who already has trouble breathing) we tend to be outraged about that, SOP or not. In this case the health condition was depression with suicidal ideation -- it's not unreasonable to blame the behaviour of the prosecutors for bringing about his death even if the same behaviour wouldn't have led to the death of a healthier suspect.

Personally I think this is more of a failure of mental health care than of the prosecution -- although one could debate whether their indifference to his condition, or the general politics involved in their decisions, is indicative of other problems. He should have been under professional mental care and counselling. Prosecutors aren't mental health care professionals -- they're not qualified to judge his stability or risk to himself.

Re: Aaron Swartz died three years ago today

#177

Post by Chathamization »

briandear wrote: post #163
Chathamization wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very good point. It's pretty common when a sexual assault happens for the school to handle it internally rather than notify the authorities. Apparently, this is the case at MIT, and 1 in 6 female students have reported being sexually assaulted[1]. When a school sends police after someone for downloading academic files, and yet decides to not send the police after sex offenders (dealing with them internally a…

Swartz wasn't a MIT student and thus 'dealing with it internally' was not an available option. What would they do, put him in detention?

Ask Harvard to take away his JSTOR access? It doesn't seem like it would have been difficult to have found some punitive measures that didn't involve the police.

Re: Aaron Swartz died three years ago today

#178

Post by Chathamization »

ryanlol wrote: post #175
pluma wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't know whether he would still be alive. We do know he wouldn't have been in the situation in which he ended his life. Claiming that victims of depression who have killed themselves would have killed themselves anyway is no less disgusting.

We really don't know how much of an effect MIT declaring that they don't want Swartz in prison would've had on his prosecution, speculating on that is rather pointless anyway since we never got to hear his sentence. I never made such a claim. I specifically brought up the previous depression to make clear that we really don't know what was going on his life and what ended up driving him over the edge.

MIT could have also simply locked the door to the closet. Or JSTOR could have simply revoked his account. Instead, the police were sent after him.

Re: Aaron Swartz died three years ago today

#179

Post by baldfat »

suprgeek wrote: post #130

MIT Failed him - spectacularly so. If they had declared that they had no wish to see him in prison and used their (considerable) influence he would be alive. Instead, this political, vindictive creature http://wgbhnews.org/post/carmen-ortiz-spotlight-under-fire and her nasty acolytes in search of a high profile "Scalp" pushed him over the edge. A terrible waste and a horrible use (misuse) of prosecutorial discretion.

Have a friend in a Federal investigation. No evidence besides people who did something wrong willing to turn State's Evidence. Heck he was under surveillance for 2 years and NOTHING. He is threatened with 25 years to life.

Re: Aaron Swartz died three years ago today

#180

Post by ryanlol »

Chathamization wrote: post #178
ryanlol wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We really don't know how much of an effect MIT declaring that they don't want Swartz in prison would've had on his prosecution, speculating on that is rather pointless anyway since we never got to hear his sentence. I never made such a claim. I specifically brought up the previous depression to make clear that we really don't know what was going on his life and what ended up driving him over the edge.

MIT could have also simply locked the door to the closet. Or JSTOR could have simply revoked his account. Instead, the police were sent after him.

That's pretty much what they did, but Swartz didn't stop before they called the police.

http://volokh.com/2013/01/14/aaron-swartz-charges/ is a good read btw.

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