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This is party time; Internet Explorer 8, 9 and 10 die on Tuesday

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Re: This is party time; Internet Explorer 8, 9 and 10 die on Tuesday

#171
post #19
post #17

I think it should have a built in kill switch. It knows it's own EOL date, and just wouldn't work after that.

Really? I know that would be easier for developers, but think about it from a "it's my computer" point of view - do you really want people doing that to you? It's your computer, you should be able to to run whatever software you like. A reminder to upgrade, OK, that's fine. But actually disabling? You go too far.

Except most of the time, it's not really your computer anymore. First, if it's proprietary software, you've licensed it, you don't own it, it's not yours, you have no say what the policy is. The company lawyers could make a case such an EOL switch is necessary just to avoid liablity once they're no longer providing security fixes.

If you want this kind of choice, the only way is free and open source software. That's the reality, and it's been that way for a very long time, just read the EULA. It isn't yours. They're not doing things "to you" by preventing it from working, they're protecting themselves. Free software could decline to work by default, with something like an about:config opt out feature. That's because free software belongs to everyone.

Next, hardware. Apple, the most among all the companies making hardware, explicitly reserves the right to modify the hardware after sale. There is in effect a hardware EULA. Your rights are fairly limited to turning it off or disposing of the phone. You don't have a right to modify it, you don't have a right to jail break it, you don't have a right to run software that Apple doesn't, through its license that you've agreed to, approve of. Not only is the software not yours, there is tacit residual hardware right reserved by Apple. I don't like it, you don't have to like it, that's how the agreement effectively works though. So if you really don't like it, then you shouldn't buy those kinds of products.

Android, it's fairly similar license wise, but there is at least in most implementations the option to enable 3rd party software installation. So you could install some ancient unpatched web browser if that's what you wanted to do. And of course Cyanogenmod and other free OS's you have a lot more control because the software is yours by virtue of you having possession of it. You have a legal right to modify it if you don't like how it behaves.

Re: This is party time; Internet Explorer 8, 9 and 10 die on Tuesday

#172
post #148
post #17

I think it should have a built in kill switch. It knows it's own EOL date, and just wouldn't work after that.

If that got popular in general, think of the fun malware possibilities where "setting the clock" becomes a major security issue. Not to mention sabotage. Shut down the chemical plant by changing the time on a PC to the year 2200 (assuming it works past 2039 anyway), etc.

Changing the clock is already a legitimate security concern. Only root should be able to make such modifications anyway, and if root is compromised it doesn't matter anyway because there are much easier ways to take down a system once someone's escalated privileges that far.

Re: This is party time; Internet Explorer 8, 9 and 10 die on Tuesday

#173
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the 80/20 rule for me. Think about the type of client (individual user/corporation) that is still using Entities who use legacy software have more problems than their browser. It's symptomatic of a much larger issue, and I love being able to filter them out!

> It's the 80/20 rule for me. Think about the type of client (individual user/corporation) that is still using At an entity level, they may be difficult to deal with, but at the level of an individual in the organisation they know their company has problems. These people move around, and personal relationships are really important long term. This is my main motivating factor. As long as the client pays (20% of revenu…

Definitely! Are you from the UK? "Swings & Roundabouts" is something I associated with that land.

Re: This is party time; Internet Explorer 8, 9 and 10 die on Tuesday

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So... not actually standalone. Chrome and Firefox don't have that dependency. I guess that memo still hasn't been sent.

But it's perfectly normal to depend on some OS parts and have minimum version requirements. Happens with everything out there, just that thresholds are different. Any recent Chrome doesn't run on Windows XP. IE11 doesn't run on Vista. Edge doesn't run on 7. Safari 7 doesn't run on OS X 10.8. What do you propose to MS - to spend time supporting Windows Vista? Or make a browser that supports it? Bet they just don't car…

Any recent Chrome doesn't run on Windows XP.

I'm regularly in an office that is rife with XP. I won't be in that office to check the exact versions on all the installed Chromes for a couple of weeks, but they certainly seem up-to-date.

Re: This is party time; Internet Explorer 8, 9 and 10 die on Tuesday

#175
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't need to 'cite' what I can see with my own eyes from the stats of my payment services provider. Your original statement was broad and general, not qualified. Your anecdotal evidence is not sufficient to support this claim. In the context of the discussion about supporting IE 8,9 and 10 and using your terminology flexbox (which IE 8-10 doesn't support) seems to be "all kinds of sexy stuff" and "not keeping thi…

Suit yourself. One thing I do know: if you are serious about commerce you can't afford to lose customers that you've spent a lot of money to acquire it tends to wreak havoc with your spreadsheets.

If I was running a train ticketing system or an old ATM, I guess I'd keep supporting OS/2.

If the cost of supporting old browsers was more than the profit you make, then that spreadsheet will show a different story.

Re: This is party time; Internet Explorer 8, 9 and 10 die on Tuesday

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Encouraging or even assisting users with browsers that have security bugs is also not a responsible way of going about doing business!

Every browser has security issues. And as a business it is not up to you to decide what browsers people use, the best you could do is inform them but the decision is up to them.

Still using MD5 summed SSL certificates?

What security issues does the latest version of Chrome have, incidentally?

Re: This is party time; Internet Explorer 8, 9 and 10 die on Tuesday

#177
post #79
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Microsoft were kind of correct in the "browser choice" lawsuit that they'd used the browser as an OS component, and everyone else was correct that this was kind of a bad idea. Unfortunately, Microsoft signed a consent decree with the DoJ in 1995 which allowed them to add features to the operating system but meant they couldn't tie a separate program to the operating system. Therefore the browser had to be an added…

The consent decree is a large part of why we have browser (and OS!) choice at the moment. Imagine the world where IE6 won and use of ActiveX controls on websites was routine.

To quote myself from earlier...

The IE6 era (2001 to 2005 or 2006) was a period of great creativity, and it was when a lot of dominant web properties became established. Examples include Wikipedia, LinkedIn, Second Life, The Pirate Bay, MySpace, Orkut, Facebook, Gmail, Flickr, OpenStreetMap, YouTube, MegaUpload, Pandora and Twitter.

Web 2.0 became popular during that era (2004 onwards).

That "stagnation" compares rather well with much of the flashy, transient rubbish being launched nowadays.

Also, when it came out, IE6 was the most standards-compliant browser and generally performed better than its main rivals.

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