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The Yale Problem Begins in High School

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Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#171

Post by bsamuels »

kafkaesq wrote: post #100
tosseraccount wrote: post #13

Look how Silicon Valley folks treated Brandon Eich when he made a donation to the majority side in a California proposition. It's not just academia where you can't speak freely.

Ugh. The Brendan Eich issue was about freedom of association -- in particular, the right of Mozilla employees and stakeholders not to be associated with the bigoted groups (and their hateful TV ads) Eich was supporting -- rather than freedom of speech. If you're still not clear as to the distinction, please see: https://xkcd.com/1357/

responding to someone's opinion with "Ugh." is exactly what the op article is about

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#172

Post by dionidium »

rthomas6 wrote: post #128
kelukelugames wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which ideas do they want to censor? Edit: I'm looking for specific examples. Otherwise we are just feigning outrage. I had an ex co-worker who confided in me that he doesn't like gay people. I was very happy that he couldn't say that in public.

Here are some. Note that I do not necessarily believe these ideas, just that they are considered taboo to the point that they cannot be tolerated or seriously discussed in certain circles. * The USA is a moral country. * The USA is morally superior to most/all other countries. * A specific member of an in-power "preferred" group can experience unjustified prejudice, oppression, and bullying from members of an out-of-…

This is a good list, but of course the most incendiary additions would involve race.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#173

Post by nemo1618 »

soylentcola wrote: post #131
Balgair wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife went to one of the 7 sisters. She said 'This happens every 3-5 years with regularity. Just wait for the cocaine to run out. Things will quiet down after that'

Amusing joke and I've run across similar ones (South Park, for one, had two old guys grumbling about how long it took "PC" to run its course last time) but on a more serious note, I wonder how much of it is just the nature of young, relatively wealthy/privileged people to want to "change the world" and find a cause. I'm a bit past college age these days but in the mid/late 90's when I was at university, there were pl…

The biggest failure of such people is that their own conduct serves as a terrible advertisement for the sort of worldview they promote. Look at these people: do you see happy, healthy, mindful, compassionate, self-confident, well-adjusted human beings? I don't. I see bitter, spiteful, demanding, insecure, Us-vs-Them types, perpetually searching for the next perceived slight. Are these the sort of people I'm supposed to want to emulate? They are so caught up in making me a good person that they have not made good people of themselves. And everyone suffers for it.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#174

Post by rglover »

balls187 wrote: post #69

South Park's Stunning and Brave did a great take down on this intolerance of intolerance culture that is growing among US youth.

Came here to post this as it's hands down the most brilliant indictment of this culture I've seen to date: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXF8MIG_HQI

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#175

Post by Aqueous »

as long the definition of the word 'safety' has been expanded to include removing any risk of emotional distress from day-to-day life, we might as well call the current campus climate 'unsafe' for anyone who doesn't hold the prevailing views. i know i certainly didn't feel 'safe' to express the occasional disagreement with the majority opinion while at wesleyan, even though i was 99% in agreement with those prevailing views. i felt paranoid about (either accidentally or deliberately) saying the wrong thing and therefore provoking mob justice. 'walking on eggshells' was an understatement. that paranoia felt more than justified when people who had expressed contrary opinions were the subject of campus-wide mockery, derision, and ostracism.

being reflexively deferential to every conceivable sensitivity causes us to disproportionately look out for the safety of some at the expense of the overall atmosphere of civility, dignity, respect, and yes, 'safety,' of the campus. it really hit home when recently Wesleyan's campus newspaper lost a good portion of its funding because it dared to publish an op-ed criticizing the Black Lives Matter movement on effectiveness grounds [1]. After all, students no longer felt "safe" knowingly attending the same school as someone who disagrees with them (rightly or wrongly). i am completely embarrassed.

[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/free-speech-is-flunk...

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#176

Post by marknutter »

genericresponse wrote: post #162

Just for everyone's awareness, there is a broad astroturf and professional political push that has been happening for over a year by FIRE, a right leaning think tank. This is a concerted effort to bring controversy around campus free speech into the news. My perception is that this is an effort to weaken student's ability to speak freely, but is coded as a "free speech" issue. Similar to how many churches coded marri…

Ah, so it's a conspiracy. Gotcha.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#177

Post by Retra »

coreyp_1 wrote: post #137

This directly relates to us in tech. Specifically, there is a huge push to reach out to women and girls in CS. I am not opposed to females in CS at all. I will encourage males and females alike to pursue it, because I see CS as the great equalizer; the only thing that matters is what you produce. What I can't stand are these "Women in technology" conferences and workshops to "close the (gender) gap". Why? Because if…

>I don't care about the men/women ratio.

I don't care about clothing styles, but if you dress very strangely, I'll judge you just the same. You know why? It's because dressing strangely means you do care about style, and even though I don't care about style, I do care about priorities, and I might find your prioritizing of style to be counter-productive and off-putting.

So yeah, I actually do care about style, because it matters.

>What I can't stand are these "Women in technology" conferences and workshops to "close the (gender) gap". Why? Because if you focus on one group, then you are actively not focusing on another. Given the dichotomy defined by their stated purpose, they are actively dismissive of men (boys). That is wrong.

And right now, you are not focussing on technology, but on gender issues. So you're a hypocrite. You care enough about gender to voice an opinion, but only to lash out at others who dare to have an opinion?

People have different priorities from you. Some people want a safe, encouraging work/hobby community. Some people want role models. Who are you to say they shouldn't work to create those, and instead work to get what you want?

And what do you care that someone holds a conference you wouldn't even go to?

>If I say this publically, then I, too, will be ostracized.

Have you considered the possibility that you are actually wrong about what you believe? How do you know you're not rationalizing where your feet are by measuring where your shoes are?

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#178

Post by gph »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #84
dragonwriter wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But colleges buying into their craziness and lunacy is. No, its not. On either left-wing or right-wing causes.

Yes it would be. Imagine the outcry if a school hung up a sign going "No blacks allowed".

Sort of like the Governor of Alabama saying exactly that on the footsteps of the University of Alabama?

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#179

Post by lukeschlather »

rthomas6 wrote: post #128
kelukelugames wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which ideas do they want to censor? Edit: I'm looking for specific examples. Otherwise we are just feigning outrage. I had an ex co-worker who confided in me that he doesn't like gay people. I was very happy that he couldn't say that in public.

Here are some. Note that I do not necessarily believe these ideas, just that they are considered taboo to the point that they cannot be tolerated or seriously discussed in certain circles. * The USA is a moral country. * The USA is morally superior to most/all other countries. * A specific member of an in-power "preferred" group can experience unjustified prejudice, oppression, and bullying from members of an out-of-…

> Poor whites are not a privileged class.

I just wanted to respond to this because (like a lot of these ideas) I think they represent a response to a strawman. The core point of the discussion of privilege acknowledges that all people have privileges. The question then is defining what they are and how useful they are.

When talking about white privilege, the point is that poor whites are better off than poor blacks, just by virtue of being white. The interesting thing here is that there are privileges only afforded to poor blacks. The problem is that the privileges afforded to poor whites are more useful than those afforded to poor blacks.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#180

Post by cm2187 »

jseliger wrote: post #12

I've taught at two colleges and based on my (purely) anecdotal experiences and attention to the climate, I'd say that the number of students and faculty interested in stifling or censoring ideas is small but also very, very noisy. They also have no sense of humor and college administrators as a group have no sense of humor or perspective, and they're chronically worried about accusations of indifference or insensitiv…

a liberal tea party?
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