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State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

theguardian.com

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Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#171

Post by hartator »

tallerholler wrote: post #164
rayiner wrote: post #125

Disappointed to see the comments downplaying the situation because as many people get killed in car accidents every week or whatever. Terrorist acts damage the social fabric far beyond the death toll. That's the whole point of terrorism.

yes. the damage goes way beyond the death toll. it will be interesting to see how (if) this impacts current policies towards the middle east/syria/isis, personal freedoms/surveillance laws etc. maybe it will also have a side-effect of uniting people and countries against a common threat to all humanity.

State of emergency and closing borders are already personal freedom restrictions.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#172

Post by stvswn »

deanCommie wrote: post #111

And here come the "Obviously this is going to happen, France is 10% muslim" posts. If you marginalize people, mistrust them, do not make an effort to integrate them, and make them feel like the only place where they are welcome is segregated communities, don't be surprised when they radicalize. This has happened all throughout history, and will continue without changes. Conservatives scream that Liberals are too soft…

When you say "here come the..," which posts are you talking about?

It seems like your point is that the French are to blame because they didn't properly integrate Muslim immigrants?

This is shockingly bad taste. People are still dying, as we speak, and you decide to rail against a strawman and blame the victims because you are nervous about your political opponents making hay?

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#173

Post by aikah »

CapitalistCartr wrote: post #152
aikah wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you marginalize people, mistrust them, do not make an effort to integrate them, and make them feel like the only place where they are welcome is segregated communities, don't be surprised when they radicalize. This has happened all throughout history, and will continue without changes. @deanCommie Please, stop with the excuses , nobody marginalized anybody. The terrorists are not victims , the islamists are not…

What does "backer" mean? Edit: Ahh, you changed it to baker. My mind was wandering all over but there.

sorry i meant baker, corrected.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#174

Post by Sven7 »

borkt wrote: post #114
Sven7 wrote: post #97

I'd like to see a ban on live threads, when these things happen. Beyond reporting emergency contact info they serve no purpose other than encouraging the next attack.

If you think an HN thread is is encouraging an attack... might as well shut down twitter, facebook, all versions of press and publishing first

I obviously meant all live threads.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#175

Post by weatherlight »

aikah wrote: post #123

French and living in Paris here. I'm at home fortunately but I live nearby the places in the eastern side of Paris that were attacked. Don't know what to say , just that I hope everybody and their families are safe. This is hard, a very hard hit on my country. Vive la France.

Stay safe!

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#177

Post by jonah »

rtz12 wrote: post #166

Gee, I wonder when they will finally tell us that the ones responsible are in fact, islamic terrorists. Mark my words HN, this is just the beginning. I wonder when things like this will happen in other European countries. Germany is a likely candidate, as we are currently mass-importing the potential terrorist candidates. And now, I'll just wait for the downvotes I guess.

The challenge is to separate the legitimate refugees from those with nefarious intent isn't it. :(

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#179

Post by toomuchtodo »

yourepowerless wrote: post #158
toomuchtodo wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many citizens show we permit to be slaughtered in the name of unwavering tolerance? EDIT: There is preventing integration as a host nation's people, and refusing to integrate as an immigrant. One can only do so much to make a person feel welcome in a country as their new home. You may bring your beliefs, but you'll follow the laws and human rights expectations of your host country. Otherwise, stay at home, war to…

Are you referring to the western powers which have killed millions of Muslims this last decade?

Western powers? Not so much.

"Al-Qaida Kills Eight Times More Muslims Than Non-Muslims"

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/surprising-study-o...

"ISIS’s Gruesome Muslim Death Toll: The group’s killing of Westerners gets attention. But ISIS has killed far more Muslims, and publicizing that fact would harm it more."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/10/07/isis-s-grue...

"Well, if spilling Muslim blood is the deciding factor for us Muslims to decide who we should take vengeance against, then al-Ansi and others in al Qaeda should immediately go into hiding. Simply put, al Qaeda has been slaughtering Muslims for years. Islamic clerics, doctors, nurses, women, children, etc. -- you name any type of Muslim, and al Qaeda has butchered them.

In fact, a report released in 2009 by the Combating Terrorism Center at West Point documented the people killed by al Qaeda between 2004 and 2008. It found that only 12% of the victims of al Qaeda were Westerners. That suggests that al Qaeda has killed seven times as many Muslims as non-Muslims. And these attacks were just the ones for which al Qaeda had publicly claimed responsibility."

http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/15/opinion/obeidallah-al-qaeda-hy...

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#180

Post by vacri »

jacquesm wrote: post #72
NewNole2001 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Now.

I think it could wait for a day or two, this is happening right now and it is entirely disrespectful to those involved to derail this into some argument contra the surveillance state.

I think you're in error here. Benevol is talking about we need to talk about what kind of life we want to live, and this is a good time to talk about it. You yourself have been providing a lot of context in this thread (exhausting my upvote muscles...) talking about the same thing - why this is happening, sources of unrest, how to deal with the root problem, how technology is actually contributing to the problem... a tonne of context (thank you). But talking about surveillance laws dovetails into the gestalt of the problem, methinks.
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