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Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

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Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#171

Post by IanCal »

mberning wrote: post #5

I think about this often. Every day in rush hour traffic I have to take a number of calculated risks in order to get to work. This usually crops up when making a turn onto a highly congested road. I could easily see a self driving car being too conservative to find a gap and pull out, leading to a furious string of drivers behind it.

> I could easily see a self driving car being too conservative to find a gap and pull out, leading to a furious string of drivers behind it.

That's why the google cars have a little 'aggression' factor which makes them move out a bit without waiting for a completely clear gap.

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#172

Post by brazzledazzle »

Terretta wrote: post #157
brazzledazzle wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now, I'm not saying a car's length is an appropriate distance. Generally speaking it should be 2-3 seconds. But I see this idea a lot on the internet, particularly on reddit: I should be unsafe because other people will get mad at me for being safe which will make them do wildly unsafe things. I'm sorry, but I can't accept that. Police need to start focusing on safety instead of revenue generation. I don't care what…

On the contrary, its unsafe to not tailgate close enough. Speed and tailgating don't kill, differences in speed kills. If you are two seconds behind, they could come to a near stop and you can crash into them at full speed. If you drove with zero distance between the your bumper and the car in front of you, if they brake hard you will have no impact at all. This is why it's safe for train cars to tailgate. In my view…

You seem to have taken the concept that the larger the differences in velocity the greater the damage and extrapolated more from it than you ought to have.

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#173

Post by evgen »

rgbrenner wrote: post #106
kissickas wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that required by law? FTA '"We've capped the speed of our prototype vehicles at 25 mph for safety reasons," the post explained. "We want them to feel friendly and approachable, rather than zooming scarily through neighborhood streets."' Sounds like Google's decision to me. Either way, it's not a highway, so that section seems irrelevant. And "in compliance with the law" is quite a broad redirect.

Yes, it's by (federal) law... specifically Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 500 http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/rulings/lsv/lsv.html Vehicles under 3000lbs and with a max speed of 20-25mph (like golf carts) do not have to meet the safety requirements of passenger vehicles. This wikipedia page sums up the situation pretty well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neighborhood_Electric_Vehicle

Nice circular reasoning there. Google chooses not to meet the safety requirements that are imposed on regular vehicles. Because Google makes this choice you posit that the law is forcing it to limit the speed. I think you have causality backwards here.

There are similar laws preventing mopeds and other motor-driven bicycles from entering highways; the laws prevent the vehicle from maintaining highway speeds and therefore they are forbidden from entering the highway.

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#174

Post by coldpie »

thrownaway2424 wrote: post #97
coderdude wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get this a lot. Sometimes there's a car in the far left lane (the legally unofficial "fast lane") driving much slower than the social norm expects. It causes issues. People need to move when someone is in their way. It's instinct. It screws up the flow.

Having a speed gradient across the lanes is for limited-access divided highways only. Left lane / right lane == fast lane / slow lane is not applicable to ordinary streets.

Under free-flowing traffic conditions, there is no such thing as the "fast lane." What you're thinking of is called the "passing lane." If you are not actively passing someone in the cruising lane, then you need to get out of the passing lane, right now. If someone in the cruising lane is next to you and going the same speed as you, then you need to slow down or speed up, move over, and resume your cruising speed. There is no excuse for cruising in the passing lane.

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#175

Post by Kequc »

anon4 wrote: post #103
mberning wrote: post #5

I think about this often. Every day in rush hour traffic I have to take a number of calculated risks in order to get to work. This usually crops up when making a turn onto a highly congested road. I could easily see a self driving car being too conservative to find a gap and pull out, leading to a furious string of drivers behind it.

I don't know about you, but people raging behind the wheel because I'm in front and driving safely gives me schadenfreude... It might be less safe on the whole, given that angry people drive more aggressively, but they would have driven aggressively anyway, so... meh?

Just stay in the right lane go the speed limit and we're cool.

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#177

Post by alistairSH »

Joeri wrote: post #48
jws wrote: post #17

The Google cars are licensed as Neighborhood Electric Vehicles. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neighborhood_Electric_Vehicl... This means they are legally limited to 25mph and legally allowed to drive on roadways with speed limits up to 45mph. NEVs let you have very light weight, inexpensive vehicles with exceptional economy… that would be instant death traps in a high speed collision. They don't undergo ordinary cr…

It's no more dangerous than driving a motorbike. People do that all the time without worrying about the risk.

While they may not "worry" about the risk, they are certainly cognizant of it. Most wear helmets and gloves, many wear armor and leathers.

In the case of a NEV, it's a 4-wheel car with doors... Unless told otherwise, most drivers are going to assume they meet passenger car safety standards.

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#178

Post by callesgg »

amelius wrote: post #165
jfoster wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A gun isn't very autonomous, though. As tools become increasingly autonomous, it might not always be fair to place blame on the end user rather than the manufacturer.

I agree with this. But why use a gun-analogy when you can use a car-analogy?

Did honestly not think of it :O

But i like to go with stuff that is emotionally loaded when i compare stuff.

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#179

Post by callesgg »

jfoster wrote: post #90
callesgg wrote: post #87

Personally i think it is quite obvious that a self driving car a tool that you use. And therefore you as a user is accountable for the actions/damage you inflict with your tool. No different that using a gun and shooting someone by accident.

A gun isn't very autonomous, though. As tools become increasingly autonomous, it might not always be fair to place blame on the end user rather than the manufacturer.

It really depends on what you are buying.

Are you buying a car that is guaranteed to never be in or cause any form of car-accidents.

Or are you buying a car that will try to it's best to get you from point A to point B.

In an accident with the first example the there is a manufacturing flaw, the car did not meet it's specs.

In an accident with the second example you fucked up, you should not have given the control away and it is your fault. The car did nothing wrong it did what you told it to do.

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#180

Post by Lawtonfogle »

mberning wrote: post #5

I think about this often. Every day in rush hour traffic I have to take a number of calculated risks in order to get to work. This usually crops up when making a turn onto a highly congested road. I could easily see a self driving car being too conservative to find a gap and pull out, leading to a furious string of drivers behind it.

In which case the car finds out a problem in the design of the road that needs to be fixed.
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