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Why people keep trying to erase the Hollywood sign from Google Maps (2014)

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Re: Why people keep trying to erase the Hollywood sign from Google Maps (2014)

#171
post #20

The attempt to turn public property into the property of the locals reminds me of a similar, non-tech-related case, also in LA - Malibu beaches. According to the law of the state of California, all beaches are public property. Of course, this gets a bit complicated when an individual owns the land in front of the beach. The people who buy houses in Malibu would, of course, prefer to have a private beach section. So t…

This is called the public trust doctrine. Also see Illinois Central Railroad Co. v. Illinois. Its the same here in Connecticut and I take advantage of it.

http://www.ct.gov/deep/cwp/view.asp?A=2705&Q=323792

Connecticut's shore belongs to the people--not just in terms of our environmental and cultural heritage, but in a specific legal sense as well. Under the common law public trust doctrine, a body of law dating back to Roman times, all coastal states as sovereigns hold the submerged lands and waters waterward of the mean high water line in trust for the public. The general public may freely use these lands and waters, whether they are beach, rocky shore, or open water, for traditional public trust uses such as fishing, shellfishing, boating, sunbathing, or simply walking along the beach. In Connecticut, a line of state Supreme Court cases dating back to the earliest days of the republic confirm that private ownership ends at mean high water line, and that the state holds title to the lands waterward of mean high water, subject to the private rights of littoral or riparian access.

The public trust area comprises submerged lands and waters waterward of the mean high water line in tidal coastal, or navigable waters of the state of Connecticut. On the ground, the public trust area extends from the water up to a prominent wrack line, debris line, or water mark. In general, if an area is regularly wet by the tides, you are probably safe to assume that it is in the public trust. The public trust area is also sometimes referred to as tidelands, and is defined as "public beach" by the Connecticut Coastal Management Act, C.G.S. 22a-93(6).

"Public rights include fishing, boating, hunting, bathing, taking shellfish, gathering seaweed, cutting sedge, and of passing and repassing. . ." Orange v. Resnick, 94 Conn. 573 (1920).

"It is settled in Connecticut that the public has the right to boat, hunt, and fish on the navigable waters of the state." State v. Brennan, 3 Conn. Cir. 413 (1965). The public has the right to fish and shellfish over submerged private lands, Peck v. Lockwood, 5 Day 22 (1811).

The public has the right to pass and repass in navigable rivers, Adams v. Pease 2 Conn. 481 (1818) .

The public may gather seaweed between ordinary high water and low water, Chapman v. Kimball 9 Day 38 (1831).

In almost every case, private property ends, and public trust property begins, at the mean high water line (often referred to as "high water mark" in court decisions). Mean high water is the average of high tides over a defined period, and its elevation can be obtained from standard references, including the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Tidal Flood Profile charts.

The public owns up to "high water mark," Simons v. French, 25 Conn. 346 (1856).

Title of riparian proprietor terminates at ordinary high water mark, Mather v. Chapman, 40 Conn. 382 (1873).

"High water mark" = "mean high water mark" = "ordinary high water mark." Private ownership of submerged lands is possible, only when basins are dredged from upland, or from inland, non-navigable waters. Michalczo v. Woodmont, 175 Conn. 535 (1978).

The adjacent landowner has the exclusive riparian or littoral right of access to navigable water. This does not mean that the owner can exclude others from the adjacent waters, but that only the owner may get to the water from his or her upland, as by constructing a dock or other structures where appropriate and appropriately authorized. In terms of access, navigable waters are equivalent to a public road, and a dock serves the same purpose as a private driveway. A littoral landowner may not exclude the public from lawful uses of the public trust area, just as an upland owner cannot exclude the public from driving or walking on the street in front of his or her house. Of course, nuisance behavior in the public trust, such as littering, intoxication, etc. would constitute a breach of the peace, just as if done by neighbors on adjacent upland property.

Re: Why people keep trying to erase the Hollywood sign from Google Maps (2014)

#172
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the whole road is maintained by the city. If it's a private road the residents should pay for it. At the top of the hill before the bend there is adequate space to turn around if that is where the gate should be. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Wolfback+Ridge+Rd,+Sausali... The road at the top is also a loop.

I emailed Jonathon Goldman, the Dir. of Public Works and got a response. He wrote: Good afternoon. Here's a short answer from MarinMap (attached). The pieces of roadway that have no zoning, are inside the City Limits (the red dashed line) and have no parcel boundaries crossing them are generally public right of way. Roads that transit parcels with a solid color (and are therefore not as visible on the attached), or h…

It's clear that it's city-owned at least to the intersection of the trail and the road that continues on towards the radio station (i.e. the westernmost sharp turn). At some point, the road "disappears" behind the yellow parcel, but that's much further down the road.

So, if you can see the road, especially if it's in the city limits (red dotted line), it's public land.

Re: Why people keep trying to erase the Hollywood sign from Google Maps (2014)

#173
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the whole road is maintained by the city. If it's a private road the residents should pay for it. At the top of the hill before the bend there is adequate space to turn around if that is where the gate should be. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Wolfback+Ridge+Rd,+Sausali... The road at the top is also a loop.

I emailed Jonathon Goldman, the Dir. of Public Works and got a response. He wrote: Good afternoon. Here's a short answer from MarinMap (attached). The pieces of roadway that have no zoning, are inside the City Limits (the red dashed line) and have no parcel boundaries crossing them are generally public right of way. Roads that transit parcels with a solid color (and are therefore not as visible on the attached), or h…

Same guy I spoke to. He said you could drive and access the trail head which is right where the fire trail for the Radio towers is, first sharp left turn.

People still have issues doing that though. My wife reminded me this evening that she was confronted walking down the hill. It's nuts.

Re: Why people keep trying to erase the Hollywood sign from Google Maps (2014)

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you are these fellas: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMrKscEv_Ri1pvlRsLxsqJQ

Their stickers are easy to remove, so it's not the same thing.

Oh, they switched to harder-to-remove ones at some point, because douchebags tended to remove them and continue following their douchy ways of behaviour.

A hard-to-remove sticker that takes up a third of the windshield is a really great idea IMO; all the "Putinjugend's" issues aside, I think StopXam are doing a great work.

Re: Why people keep trying to erase the Hollywood sign from Google Maps (2014)

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Adhere the label to the side window or windshield. Once stuck onto a window, the warning requires scrapping or a razor blade to remove. Vandalism, basically.

Government funded stickerbombing for driving on a public(?) road.

I say: good. Drivers as a general category are incredibly hard to keep in order. There's something about cars that makes many people lose their sanity.

Re: Why people keep trying to erase the Hollywood sign from Google Maps (2014)

#176
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a sticker that gets put on your window. They're very hard to remove. http://www.myparkingpermit.com/Parking-Violation-Stickers/No...

Those stickers should be illegal. It's pettiness at its worst. Edit: illegal to use on people's cars/property that is.

Quite often, recipients of those stickers totally deserve it. I recommend watching some of the videos from the channel 'vermontdevil linked to.

I thought few times about starting something similar in Poland but then I understood StopXam really works only because they're government-backed program, so if someone gets too angry about having half of their windshield covered in a "I don't respect people" stickers, the police will bring him to order quickly.

Re: Why people keep trying to erase the Hollywood sign from Google Maps (2014)

#177
post #3

I may be missing something, but why don't they build a car park and widen the road? Surely it's a lot easier than trying to stop people going to one of the most recognisable landmarks in the world. It's definitely worrying that major tech companies are willing to alter their maps at the request of a few wealthy individuals.

You are. The geography and neighborhood probably wouldn't allow for it and there are other nearby places to park and hike to the sign (if that's where people need to be).

The shuttle idea is probably the best bet at the moment and the way it should be - the community and local gov't working together to solve issues rather than being petty, vindictive and somehow getting their way by having it changed on Google Maps as if it were a top secret military base and not just a pain in the ass to park.

Re: Why people keep trying to erase the Hollywood sign from Google Maps (2014)

#178
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but no one stays at a yard sale for more than 2 or 3 minutes. By the time the tow truck would arrive they would be long gone. This is at its heart the reason why this is an overzealous non-problem.

There are a lot of other crimes that can be committed before law enforcement would arrive. Would you suggest those are non-issues as well? It's hard for me to believe that you're not being a troll on purpose, and that you honestly are the sort of selfish person that you would deny someone access to or from their own home. Oh, wait, I think I get it. You don't own a house? That must be it. You're not a selfish jerk, y…

Personal attacks are not allowed on HN. Please don't do this.

Re: Why people keep trying to erase the Hollywood sign from Google Maps (2014)

#179
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pejorative it may be, but it's accurate in this case. It was also used by the article's author. I'm normally one to champion a homeowner's rights to reduce trespassing, loitering, and destruction of property, and I do understand where the homeowners in this case are coming from. I have a little turd of a neighbor who revels in illegally driving his four wheeler across my yard but the police say I'm in a catch-22; unl…

Small nitpick - why can't you erect tire-gouging spikes in your yard? It's your yard, is it not?

He rides over it, blows a tire, his vehicle throws him into the road alongside his usual path, and he is struck and killed by a passing car. I just caused his death and can be criminally charged and civilly sued. Not to mention I don't want to impede regular pedestrians who are welcome to walk along the perimeter of my yard to avoid traffic (there is no sidewalk since it's semi-rural and it's a busy road).

Re: Why people keep trying to erase the Hollywood sign from Google Maps (2014)

#180
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>> Friend of mine got one of those hard to remove stickers put on their car for taking her mother up there. What did they put on her car?

It's a sticker that gets put on your window. They're very hard to remove. http://www.myparkingpermit.com/Parking-Violation-Stickers/No...

A hard-to-remove sticker on the windshield for parking in the wrong place? Won't that guarantee that the car will be staying in that wrong place for a lot longer? It doesn't sound safe to drive with a sticker in the middle of your windscreen.

This is just plain destructive and counterproductive. Use something that's easily noticed but also easily removed.

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