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HP to cut 25-30k jobs

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171–180 of 319 posts

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#171
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And let's suppose for a second that HP is somehow right. How did they just notice that 10% of their employees are doing something totally worthless? The keyword to search for in the economic literature is "labor hoarding". In short, companies tend to (by default) keep employees until well after they are no longer useful. Then some sort of a shock causes the company to shed the deadwood all at once. This is management…

Could you argue that in a broader sense this exact same thing happens not just on the company level, but on the level of entire economies? I recall reading a few articles on how recessions/depressions often have a way of shaking up industries to align (or rather, catch up) with new innovations/developments.

I imagine one could - certainly many companies which should die actually do die during a recession. Some structuralist theories are based on this.

But this is just theory. The empirical grounding for labor hoarding is pretty solid.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#172
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sorry if this question comes of as naive. Is the medical cost so high that it can only be covered with an insurance? Would a small amount of savings set aside for this purpose be viable in case somebody loses their medical insurance? Also would you not be able to take your own medical insurance which is independent of the company you work for? I am just trying to understand how the medical system there works. I…

CA/usa, broken ankle, two surgeries: $110k in billings. All told, probably 10-12 doctor-hours. Insurance, beyond insuring you, does something perhaps more important: they negotiate massive discounts with all medical practices/hospitals/etc. My insurer negotiated that to something reasonable (approx $35k, though memory fails me); I could even afford that if I needed to. Crucially (and I understand this is fucking stup…

wow that is lot of money, India should seriously kick medical tourism. Already happens but this can scale lot more. May be US can sponser MBBS students (There is huge amount of students does not opt for MBBS due to cost of up to $150,000 which includes donation to institutions) and then setup operting theators here in India.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#173
post #80
post #8

My father is a field-service engineer for HP in Midwest (based out of Minneapolis, but he has calls all over from Fargo, ND to Mpls, MN to Madison, WI). He is _the_ go-to for their biggest, most senior, most mission-critical clients. He put together UMN's Alpha setup, is the only guy that USPS will call for help, MNSCU, Best Buy, UHG... basically, anyone with an HP setup (server or printer) that's a Fortune 1000 (and…

Posts like this remind me how shitty the business model of most Fortune 500 companies is. They lay off people just to increase profits regardless of productivity goals. For most management councils out there everything is about numbers. Perhaps we ought to do something as a community to stop such practices. Like boycott the shit out of companies that adopt them.

Its important to note this is a dying company with no hope at all for the future. The more employees they shed, the faster they shed them, the longer they can minimally keep on operating, or rephrased they're hoping the total sum revenue will be higher if they stretch out the death of the company as long as possible.

And the reason why that's important is it doesn't matter how good of an employee he is, there's no way to stretch the death of HP out 15 years, so he needs a plan for WHEN hp dies, not IF.

The alternative is to fire everyone all at once in maybe 4 years.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#174
post #30
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your dad needs to think about the next best 5 guys, and how to pick them up for cheap when the layoffs happen. At his age striking out on his own will seem absolutely terrifying. Work on him for a few months. He must have built up some serious contacts over the years. His pitch is straightforward. HP can't actually support their products anymore, they don't have the staff. He knows the hardware inside and out. Sell s…

This sounds like a great idea, but I don't know if he's such an entrepreneur or risk-taker. Some people are, some people aren't. It's a natural thing. I'm not sure of the papers he's signed (non-competes...), or the contracts that HP has with their customers (there must be some), but... he could definitely "get the band together" and pull off such a feat. Again, I think this goes back to the contracts he had. He's on…

he can do it with your help and guidance. the midwest and south are littered with many small tech consulting outfits like this, we work with several. they all bill slightly under coastal market (we're based in california) but high for the midwest ($~150-200/hr). we use them for things like tech-focused CPA work and commercial software support i.e. oracle, sql server etc.

i personally bootstrapped my startup with 0 outside funding by doing commercial i.e. "enterprise" software consulting on a platform i had experience in from two jobs ago, with my partner, for 2 years. we each booked about $250k of revenue a year for 2-3 years before the work dried up after several buyouts etc. by then our 'real' business was self sustaining.

it's time-capped, and you'll have to hustle for the work, but you can bill an outrageous sum of money that will pad their retirement and help secure their future in an otherwise shit situation.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This depends on one's jurisdiction, in the U.S. at least. For example, in Illinois, non-competes are generally enforceable.[0] In California, they are generally not.[1] [0] http://www.isba.org/ibj/2012/01/lawpulse/employmentcovenants... [1] http://www.cnet.com/news/calif-supreme-court-finds-noncompet...

Even when you have been made redundant?

It seems to depend on the totality of the circumstances, in Illinois, so I'd imagine the nonvoluntary nature of the termination would be taken into account. But there doesn't seem to be a clear answer. If it ended up in litigation it could get messy; there isn't a terribly large amount of guidance from the courts.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#176
I do hope the Board of Directors sells off the Machine assets to a company that could actually pull it off (that's not Intel) like Microsoft or even, hell, Apple. The idea of moving processing to a memory-centered architecture just seems very interesting and possibly useful in non-trivial situations. And for that idea to die horribly with a company ill equipped just bothers me.

If they're hurting enough to layoff tens of thousands people, surely they can sell off the technology to settle some of their debts and live. Just an idea.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#178
post #8

My father is a field-service engineer for HP in Midwest (based out of Minneapolis, but he has calls all over from Fargo, ND to Mpls, MN to Madison, WI). He is _the_ go-to for their biggest, most senior, most mission-critical clients. He put together UMN's Alpha setup, is the only guy that USPS will call for help, MNSCU, Best Buy, UHG... basically, anyone with an HP setup (server or printer) that's a Fortune 1000 (and…

I am sorry if this question comes of as naive. Is the medical cost so high that it can only be covered with an insurance? Would a small amount of savings set aside for this purpose be viable in case somebody loses their medical insurance? Also would you not be able to take your own medical insurance which is independent of the company you work for? I am just trying to understand how the medical system there works. I…

There are a few elements to this.

Many providers, including public providers, are exceptionally reluctant to see uninsured patients. If push comes to shove they cannot outright refuse, but they can be highly disinclined.

Insurance isn't just "we cover your bills", but "we negotiate rates with providers". Much healthcare billing is basically funny money. Or more specifically, there are huge fixed costs, but charges are based on specific services billed (HMOs excepted, though internally they likely operate somewhat similarly), so that what in a tremendous number of cases, the healthcare provider cannot tell you, as a private individual, what you'd be billed for treatment. But some hospital procedure or stay can billed entirely differently depending on who paying, with hugely varying rates.

And, since the uninsured has zero effective bargaining leverage (health plans can threaten to drop a provider or apply other leverage), they get the highest rates.

On top of all this, billing is tremendously disaggregated. You might see charges for facility, individual supplies, labs, transport, and individual medical personnel who charge independently. Many (if not most) doctors aren't employees of a hospital, but are independent service providers who charge separately.

It's a mess.

And a distressingly ineffective one. There's been very little real improvement in health outcomes since the 1950s (and for quite some time they got worse). Much of the improvement can be chalked up to improved environmental and lifestyle factors (removing lead from paint and gasoline, asbestos, less smoking and drinking). It's been improved health outcomes for the poor and minorities which account for much of the life expectancy gains as well. Earlier improvements largely came from public health measures: fresh, clean drinking water, sewerage systems, municipal waste removal, and quarantines for infectious disease. Even vaccinations and antibiotics were relatively late and minor interventions by comparison.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#179
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They cannot afford to lose healthcare coverage. And with Obamacare, they don't have to. They should be able to purchase decent coverage on the exchange, right? That's what we did when I quit my job.

The amazing coverage they have is barely cutting it. He pays pennies on the dollar for the coverage they get. I can't imagine it would be like this at all on the exchange.

You don't have to imagine anything. Get a quote from their 24 hour telephone hotline.

https://www.healthcare.gov/contact-us/

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#180
In an unrelated industry, Beechcraft (Hawker-Beech I believe it's called now) has a similar blow out. Too many managers and not enough actual workers making product. And to make it even worse, outsourcing integral parts of the aircraft to Mexico: fuel bladders, electrical components, and etc (and sadly they refused to properly train the Mexican workers in any of it). What are they doing now under Textron? Quietly returning those outsourced jobs to Arkansas instead of Salina (Kansas), focusing on making actual aircraft, and scuttling middle management and other other useless cruft from the company. Too bad no one with a similar attitude can just swoop in and buy out HP like how Beechcraft was bought out by Textron.
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