Stephen Hawking and Yuri Milner Announce $100M Initiative to Seek ET • Hacker News Board

Re: Stephen Hawking and Yuri Milner Announce $100M Initiative to Seek ET

#161

Post by nicboobees » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 4:30 PM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #104

nicboobees wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, agree to disagree. The average person doesn't really care if there is or isn't water on mars, or if someone spent millions of their dollars taking a photo of pluto. Year after year the news reports another big experiement which cost millions to setup, and which claims to "give us answers as to how the universe was created". I just couldn't be less interested. It's rich people (Or taxpayer funded people) playing…

Space travel and exploration have directly resulting in many commercial products, which themselves have generated billions in revenue and tens of thousands of jobs (if not more). Not only is your statement disappointing to hear from anyone presuming to be technically literate, it is objectively wrong.

As a fellow reply states, using "Space travel" as a means for general R&D is pretty damn inefficient.

You would have a similar result if you poured money into alchemy research - lots of side products etc.

Re: Stephen Hawking and Yuri Milner Announce $100M Initiative to Seek ET

#162

Post by sounds » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 4:42 PM UTC

brock_r wrote: post #130

Can a satellite "orbit" so that it imitates a star? Or would it have to "stand still" out there, which would make it fall back to earth?

You're suggesting we fake a signal?

Technically, a satellite could be parked in a Lagrange Point. But the signal would have to be very, very convincing because there will be many, many very smart people looking at it.

Re: Stephen Hawking and Yuri Milner Announce $100M Initiative to Seek ET

#163

Post by randallsquared » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 4:46 PM UTC

zamalek wrote: post #73

randallsquared wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A timescale of hours is not required for most of the AI-doom arguments; if it took a year, that would have a similar outcome.

It's definitely not a requirement, it's just an example of how it could rapidly progress. Within the scope of the argument 1 hour is as plausible as 1 year - the main point is that it happens shockingly fast and continues to happen even faster.

Humans being humans, one year is not nearly as shocking, which could contribute to people actually considering the possibility.

Re: Stephen Hawking and Yuri Milner Announce $100M Initiative to Seek ET

#164

Post by murbard2 » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 4:49 PM UTC

Pigo wrote: post #106

agentgt wrote: post #99

One of my favorite topics is the Fermi Paradox and consequently the Great Filter (which someone already discussed). One of my favorite explanations is that there are other ET out there but they are two engrossed with their own entertainment to "give a fuck" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox#They_tend_to_iso... ). I find it amusing and ironic while also seriously consider it a possibility. From wikipedia:…

That feels like too much assumption to me. The scenario described well by Michio Kaku is the only one that seems probable to me. "Lets say we have an ant hill in the middle of the forest. And right next to the ant hill, they're building a ten-lane super-highway. And the question is 'Would the ants be able to understand what a ten-lane super-highway is? Would the ants be able to understand the technology and the inten…

The only thing this argument has going for it is sounding wise by virtue of being self-deprecating.

If there are structured radio signals being emitted, it matters not whether or not we understand what the aliens are up to, if it hits a sweetspot between noise and simplicity we can tell it's a signal. And no, "radio waves" aren't the equivalent of "smoke signals", if there are better ways to communicate across space, that would change a lot our understanding of physics. This isn't to say that our understanding is complete, but the default assumption should be that it's very unlikely that there is a better way to communicate long distance.

Compression is an issue in that respect, but that's a different argument.

Re: Stephen Hawking and Yuri Milner Announce $100M Initiative to Seek ET

#165

Post by dysfunction » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 4:50 PM UTC

brock_r wrote: post #130

Can a satellite "orbit" so that it imitates a star? Or would it have to "stand still" out there, which would make it fall back to earth?

A satellite can appear to "stand still" from the perspective of an observer on the ground, so long as it orbits at the right altitude/speed (speed and altitude of an orbit are proportional); the satellite's orbital period just has to be exactly a day long. For Earth, that altitude is about 42,000km up. However, it would still be easily determined to be a nearby satellite as opposed to a distant star by triangulation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geosynchronous_orbit

Re: Stephen Hawking and Yuri Milner Announce $100M Initiative to Seek ET

#166

Post by bryondowd » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 4:52 PM UTC

x5n1 wrote: post #121

bryondowd wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Three of those are fission, not fusion. And Daedalus looks more like a very high level concept, without the actual tech to accomplish it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_%28nuclear_propu... You could potentially replace fission with fusion and speed things up. And yes they were high level designs because of the supposedly immense expense.

Right. I'm sure fusion will one day allow us to do incredible things. We just haven't figured it out, yet. Right now, our best attempts at fusion (to my knowledge) put in orders of magnitude more energy than they get out. And the first applications of positive fusion energy would likely be to generate cheap power on Earth, long before it reaches a point where we could drive a ship with it.

Re: Stephen Hawking and Yuri Milner Announce $100M Initiative to Seek ET

#167

Post by aswanson » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 4:53 PM UTC

RALaBarge wrote: post #72

scrumper wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even for intentional messages, it's certainly conceivable that another civilization with sufficient power simply transmits the message in all direction continuously. I think that scenario would imply a relative scarcity of intelligent life: after all, if a space-faring civilization needs to transmit powerful, omnidirectional signals in the blind, it must be pretty lonely. Maybe, just maybe, the fact that we're not se…

Personally, I am willing to bet that all intelligent life will end up being quite lonely. Unless we find ways to bend space, there is little chance of us ever getting out of our local solar system, let alone galaxy or the local galactic cluster. I am a big fan of science and science fiction, do not get me wrong. I do feel that technology evolves and will surprise even the most tech savvy, but to violate faster than l…

I'm skeptical as well...but...something at the beginning of the universe caused it to expand far faster than the speed of light...something, some unknown force is causing it's continuous expansion. There are many deep, fundamental questions we don't know about the universe. FTL travel may be possible, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Re: Stephen Hawking and Yuri Milner Announce $100M Initiative to Seek ET

#168

Post by chongli » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 4:54 PM UTC

specialist wrote: post #143

bhc3 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm expecting somewhere way down the road, scientists will unlock the secrets to prolonging our lives for nearly forever. They'll stop the telomeres from degrading, come up with ways to address cancer quickly and effectively, etc. At the same time, space travel technology will also have been advanced, allowing for self-sustaining spacecraft that offer protection against the harsh environment of outer space. At that p…

> stop the telomeres from degrading Both our bodies and minds need to hardened to endure deep space. 10,000 years between stars is a long time to be playing solitaire. The voyagers may need to sleep, hibernate, slow down their metabolism, alter their perception of time, or something, to make the journey bearable.

10,000 years between stars is a long time to be playing solitaire.

That's assuming our space ships resemble a Saturn V or the Space Shuttle. Why limit ourselves to that? How about a colony ship the size of New York City, built in orbit, housing millions of people? At that point we don't even need to live thousands of years; we'd have a generational ship.

Re: Stephen Hawking and Yuri Milner Announce $100M Initiative to Seek ET

#169

Post by jboy55 » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 4:55 PM UTC

Pigo wrote: post #106

agentgt wrote: post #99

One of my favorite topics is the Fermi Paradox and consequently the Great Filter (which someone already discussed). One of my favorite explanations is that there are other ET out there but they are two engrossed with their own entertainment to "give a fuck" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox#They_tend_to_iso... ). I find it amusing and ironic while also seriously consider it a possibility. From wikipedia:…

That feels like too much assumption to me. The scenario described well by Michio Kaku is the only one that seems probable to me. "Lets say we have an ant hill in the middle of the forest. And right next to the ant hill, they're building a ten-lane super-highway. And the question is 'Would the ants be able to understand what a ten-lane super-highway is? Would the ants be able to understand the technology and the inten…

My thoughts are, its not just that ants trying to understand the superhighway. Its the beings that create a superhighway wishing to communicate in a way the ants would understand.

Maybe they'll just wait for the ants to start to build roads. Maybe what we think are roads (Electromagnetic waves) are to the beings as scent trails are to ants.

Re: Stephen Hawking and Yuri Milner Announce $100M Initiative to Seek ET

#170

Post by unclebucknasty » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 4:57 PM UTC

sixQuarks wrote: post #125

Pigo wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That feels like too much assumption to me. The scenario described well by Michio Kaku is the only one that seems probable to me. "Lets say we have an ant hill in the middle of the forest. And right next to the ant hill, they're building a ten-lane super-highway. And the question is 'Would the ants be able to understand what a ten-lane super-highway is? Would the ants be able to understand the technology and the inten…

Elon Musk disagrees with that statement. He believes once intelligence gets beyond a certain threshold (which humans have), there are no such things that are beyond understanding. Most people don't know how to write complex math equations, but that doesn't mean they can't understand what mathematics is.

In discussions about artificial super-intelligence (the final stage of AI that sends us rocketing beyond the singularity), our inability to comprehend what such an intelligence might desire or do is frequently accepted as a significant risk by those who fear such AI.

When one considers an infinitely and exponentially increasing intelligence that can quickly bypass the point of easily answering the questions that currently most perplex us in all fields, then it is reasonable to believe that intelligence would arrive at a level of considering (and solving) problems that we cannot even imagine, let alone understand.

Given that Elon Musk has spoken about has concern over AI, it would be interesting to hear how he integrates that with his belief that our intelligence is sufficient to understand anything.