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A world without work

theatlantic.com

161–170 of 187 posts

Re: A world without work

#161
post #104
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of the things that you mentioned, card games excepted, are particularly cheap unless you already have the equipment, and some not even then.

I regularly practice each of them and barely spend any money hiking: I just do light hiking, and all I need is a couple of sandwiches, a backpack and my boots. And plenty of water. Plenty of hills/mountains around helps, that's true biking/rollerscating: you can get a decent used bike for about $100 picnic: just the food, and you need to eat anyway board games: unless you need to switch the game every week I'd say yo…

I'm unemployed right now and I won't do any of those. Here's why:

Hiking: Buy boots and suitable clothes. Fuel to get to suitable location.

Biking/Rollerskating: Buy equipment. Fuel to get to suitable location.

Picnic: transportation supplies. Fuel to get to suitable location.

Board games: Expensive. Fuel to get to suitable location.

Lan party: Buy games. Fuel to get to suitable location.

All it costs is fuel, utilities, rent, and food. For someone with no income, that is all I can spend money on, and it has to be justifiable. Not "Oh, I play board games every once in a while", because I don't want to have to pass up on a job interview because I stupidly spent my transportation money on board games. Or whatever else.

Re: A world without work

#162
post #161
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I regularly practice each of them and barely spend any money hiking: I just do light hiking, and all I need is a couple of sandwiches, a backpack and my boots. And plenty of water. Plenty of hills/mountains around helps, that's true biking/rollerscating: you can get a decent used bike for about $100 picnic: just the food, and you need to eat anyway board games: unless you need to switch the game every week I'd say yo…

I'm unemployed right now and I won't do any of those. Here's why: Hiking: Buy boots and suitable clothes. Fuel to get to suitable location. Biking/Rollerskating: Buy equipment. Fuel to get to suitable location. Picnic: transportation supplies. Fuel to get to suitable location. Board games: Expensive. Fuel to get to suitable location. Lan party: Buy games. Fuel to get to suitable location. All it costs is fuel, utilit…

Why doesn't a bike save you a lot of money on fuel? Keeping a car on the road is expensive, you can save on insurance too. Also you can take the bus. I know, it's a pain.

Re: A world without work

#163
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm unemployed right now and I won't do any of those. Here's why: Hiking: Buy boots and suitable clothes. Fuel to get to suitable location. Biking/Rollerskating: Buy equipment. Fuel to get to suitable location. Picnic: transportation supplies. Fuel to get to suitable location. Board games: Expensive. Fuel to get to suitable location. Lan party: Buy games. Fuel to get to suitable location. All it costs is fuel, utilit…

Why doesn't a bike save you a lot of money on fuel? Keeping a car on the road is expensive, you can save on insurance too. Also you can take the bus. I know, it's a pain.

I'm not going to sell my car until I have a permanent place to live.

Re: A world without work

#164

I really enjoyed reading this article. I've been thinking quite a bit about work recently. I'm just about to turn 29, and by all accounts I'm fairly successful: I graduated college with a worthless liberal arts degree just as the Great Recession was beginning. After an unsuccessful attempt at copywriting for a couple years, I managed to learn programming. A few years after that and I'm the leader of the engineering t…

Clearly, happiness does not seem to correlate entirely with how well off you are.

Perhaps happiness relates mostly to social relationships, and spending your most productive hours with colleagues with whom you generally have relatively weak bonds depletes your 'social happiness' reserves.

Or perhaps the kinds of jobs many of us do in modern life, especially those involving computer screens and office buildings, are just not well-suited to us.

Or maybe it's just an inherent human property to be unhappy much of the time, and perhaps some people suffer more from this than others (a happiness 'baseline').

I could go on, of course, but fortunately a lot of research has been conducted on this, and many very wise people throughout the ages have written extensively about this.

One thing that could help is to start researching 'happiness' or what you could call 'the good life', whether through philosophy or religion or psychology, if you haven't done so already. And I don't mean 'google for happiness and click through few articles', but rather really dive in. Treat it as a proper project. Take a particular philosophy/approach that appeals to you, and actually apply it. Properly. At least for a while. A lot of it might be crap, or just not for you, but some of it will resonate. For me, it was Alan Watts (and zen buddhism), Seligman/positive psychology, and just the act of reading 'denser' philosophical stuff in itself that somehow tickled my happy bone (hmm, poor choice of words).

Also consider what you've tried, and most importantly, if you've actually tried these things. It took me until my thirties to realize that I had not, in fact, experimented with different ways/perspectives/philosophies of life in my twenties, but rather I had mostly half-heartedly flirted with all these things from a safe distance, and mostly let things happen to me. And all that generally just confirmed what already was while making me feel like I'd explored.

Or, to make an analogy: if you want to find a partner to be happy with long-term, this usually requires a degree of 'experimentation', as few people are lucky enough to find such a partner right away. Common mistakes in this regard are to 1) keep dating the same essential person, and then wondering why it keeps going wrong, or 2) be too shy to take initiative, and wait for things to 'happen'. I've noticed that 2 often ends up leading to 1, as you tend to attract and feel attracted to the same types of people if you remain the same kind of person.

Basically: break your patterns, and break them properly. Our natural instinct is not to, and cling to safety and the familiar. And if breaking patters becomes a pattern, well, then break that and go do the same thing with full abandon for a while.

If quitting your job seems like too much, and perhaps it is, then start with other stuff. Perhaps that will be enough. But just make sure that you really did try other things, because I think the illusion of doing or having done so is an easy trap to fall into. I personally did quit my job, because it was the only way for me to actually try different stuff, but then I'm perhaps just generally too inclined to get sucked up in what I do for work. You might not need this.

And finally, with my rather biased current perspective: give up on trying altogether. Just let yourself be 'now'. Perhaps read some of Alan Watts' material before you do this, so you have an idea as to why this might be effective.

For me the major breakthroughs and a more consistent sense of happiness came as a direct result of giving up (mostly) on all that finding. I can strongly recommend Alan Watts' 'The Book', as well as 'The Wisdom of Insecurity'. Regardless of whether you agree with him or not, he's an entertaining writer, and the approach he suggests is (relatively) unusual, perhaps especially to many of us HN types (ambitious, stuck in the 'virtual', analytic).

Re: A world without work

#165
post #161
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I regularly practice each of them and barely spend any money hiking: I just do light hiking, and all I need is a couple of sandwiches, a backpack and my boots. And plenty of water. Plenty of hills/mountains around helps, that's true biking/rollerscating: you can get a decent used bike for about $100 picnic: just the food, and you need to eat anyway board games: unless you need to switch the game every week I'd say yo…

I'm unemployed right now and I won't do any of those. Here's why: Hiking: Buy boots and suitable clothes. Fuel to get to suitable location. Biking/Rollerskating: Buy equipment. Fuel to get to suitable location. Picnic: transportation supplies. Fuel to get to suitable location. Board games: Expensive. Fuel to get to suitable location. Lan party: Buy games. Fuel to get to suitable location. All it costs is fuel, utilit…

I hear what you're saying and I guess it applies for large cities (somewhat), but in our smaller city (~100k people) we just walk places. 15-25 minutes is just fun, especially in the warm season.

Picnics, games, sports, lan parties, we just do them at home or on the public domain

hiking and other stuff needs some transportation, we either go with public transport or carpooling

I'm not saying I understand your situation, just that you don't necessarily need to spend a lot of money (or any) to have some fun with friends.

Re: A world without work

#166
post #156

I really enjoyed reading this article. I've been thinking quite a bit about work recently. I'm just about to turn 29, and by all accounts I'm fairly successful: I graduated college with a worthless liberal arts degree just as the Great Recession was beginning. After an unsuccessful attempt at copywriting for a couple years, I managed to learn programming. A few years after that and I'm the leader of the engineering t…

I am 29 and I also feel uneasy about my life. I have no real interests. I make a pretty good salary as a pharmacist and I've been saving and investing 80% of my income (up to 90% this past year) the past five years. I plan to do this for another few years. But then what? I already designed my minimalist life to be filled with free time (no possessions, no obligations). No mortgage, no loans whatsoever, and getting a…

I think you better get some interests. What's the point of free time otherwise? Or the savings?

Re: A world without work

#167
post #156

I really enjoyed reading this article. I've been thinking quite a bit about work recently. I'm just about to turn 29, and by all accounts I'm fairly successful: I graduated college with a worthless liberal arts degree just as the Great Recession was beginning. After an unsuccessful attempt at copywriting for a couple years, I managed to learn programming. A few years after that and I'm the leader of the engineering t…

I am 29 and I also feel uneasy about my life. I have no real interests. I make a pretty good salary as a pharmacist and I've been saving and investing 80% of my income (up to 90% this past year) the past five years. I plan to do this for another few years. But then what? I already designed my minimalist life to be filled with free time (no possessions, no obligations). No mortgage, no loans whatsoever, and getting a…

Can I ask you a personal question: why the vasectomy? I get that you're not looking to have kids now, but why make that a permanent decision now when you're not sure what you want in the future? I don't know you that well, but you don't strike me as the sort of person who is likely to get someone pregnant accidentally. What does getting the vasectomy mean to you?

Re: A world without work

#168
post #14

What if the new capital is creativity? The new model for "work" is OSS? Replace money with creativity in the definitions of capitalism. Material possessions are socially discounted; creating new designs, new originals the new currency to excel. If so, the first classes we now cut in schools: advanced mathematics, chorus, art, music, etc. are the areas we need to emphasize the most.

Are you trying to suggest that I could pay my rent with a song?

What if you could live without paying rent? What if all your basic needs were met without needing to earn money? What would you do with your time then?

Re: A world without work

#169
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am 29 and I also feel uneasy about my life. I have no real interests. I make a pretty good salary as a pharmacist and I've been saving and investing 80% of my income (up to 90% this past year) the past five years. I plan to do this for another few years. But then what? I already designed my minimalist life to be filled with free time (no possessions, no obligations). No mortgage, no loans whatsoever, and getting a…

Can I ask you a personal question: why the vasectomy? I get that you're not looking to have kids now, but why make that a permanent decision now when you're not sure what you want in the future? I don't know you that well, but you don't strike me as the sort of person who is likely to get someone pregnant accidentally. What does getting the vasectomy mean to you?

So what I tend to do with my free time is overplan. I guess I'm trying to maximize my freedom even more by guaranteeing zero kids. I can be quite impulsive, and I don't want to get trapped by my own poor decisions. Plus there's always adoption, IVF, etc.

Re: A world without work

#170
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I ask you a personal question: why the vasectomy? I get that you're not looking to have kids now, but why make that a permanent decision now when you're not sure what you want in the future? I don't know you that well, but you don't strike me as the sort of person who is likely to get someone pregnant accidentally. What does getting the vasectomy mean to you?

So what I tend to do with my free time is overplan. I guess I'm trying to maximize my freedom even more by guaranteeing zero kids. I can be quite impulsive, and I don't want to get trapped by my own poor decisions. Plus there's always adoption, IVF, etc.

"I can be quite impulsive, and I don't want to get trapped by my own poor decisions."

All the more reason to delay having a vasectomy. Give yourself time to think, there's no rush. Unless you're tired of wearing condoms there's not much to gain here, other than making it some kind of statement of intent.

I hope you will take some time to consider whether the vasectomy is an impulsive decision, but ultimately I know it's none of my business. It's your body, it's up to you.

Best of luck with finding enjoyable ways to spend your free time.

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