6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White' • Hacker News Board

Re: 6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White'

#161

Post by josu » Wed, May 06, 2015, 4:40 PM UTC

shawn-furyan wrote: post #132

judemelancon wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't NPR, as it was that way in the blog post linked.

Also, it's a very editorializing expletive deletion. Relatively serious* news organizations like NPR tend to avoid that sort of thing. If it was their edit, one would expect a simple "[expletive deleted]", or a rewording that didn't call attention to itself. *In using the word "serious", I only mean that NPR is among the organizations that are commonly perceived to be among the most serious news organizations. I'm no…

Yeah, that makes sense. And also, I should hace checked the link.

Re: 6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White'

#162

Post by hyperpape » Wed, May 06, 2015, 4:43 PM UTC

leephillips wrote: post #152

hyperpape wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding minority populations: it's not equivalent. But it is often the case. Think Texas, New York City, Los Angeles, or Chicago. People talk shit or joke about the French, Italians, Germans too, but French and German people are considered white. Same with Poles and Italians. Those stats you gave did not consider people of Italian or German descent as non-White.

At the moment, throughout the U.S., Italians are considered "white". In the recent past, in certain areas of the country, they (Southern Italians, at least) were considered "black". They were lynched and not allowed to marry "whites". Racial categories are ever-shifting social constructs that serve temporary political and social purposes. http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-...

You're absolutely right, and I'm am only meaning to talk about the present.

Re: 6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White'

#163

Post by emodendroket » Wed, May 06, 2015, 4:47 PM UTC

stefantalpalaru wrote: post #130

emodendroket wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Shit" and "science" derive from the same proto-Indo-European root. Does it then follow that I can use both words interchangeably?

When you go as far as Proto-Indo-European roots you're in linguistic fantasy territory, but anyway, I was talking about "a word coming straight from the Latin root". It's a clear evolution from the Latin "niger" to Spanish "negro" and illiterate English colonist "nigger". And it kept its meaning of "black" all this time. Since we're talking etymology in the grayed out bottom of a HN thread, did you know that the word…

> Since we're talking etymology in the grayed out bottom of a HN thread, did you know that the word "slave" comes from the Latin "sclavus" that means "Slav" and is therefore offensive to people of Slavic ancestry? Will you stop using it now that you know? I hope not, but it goes to show the absurdity of putting hurt feelings before reason.

You're literally arguing against your own reasoning.

Re: 6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White'

#164

Post by LordKano » Wed, May 06, 2015, 4:49 PM UTC

contergan wrote: post #60

kaa2102 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is absolutely unreasonable. When you say it "works out more often than not" I would ask "For whom?" Many snap judgments based on race lead to the death of unarmed black men and women. Studies have shown that resumes with black-sounding names get fewer callbacks and we treat black men like white men with a criminal record. Are Emily and Greg More Employable than Lakisha and Jamal? http://www.nber.org/papers/w9873 N…

>Are Emily and Greg More Employable than Lakisha and Jamal? That's impossible to say on an individual level, but it is very likely. If you phrase the question differently, there's a pretty clear answer: >On average, are two white people more employable than two black people? Without knowing any further info about the possible candidates - Yes. Looking at education statistics in the US, it becomes clear pretty quickly…

Education statistics cut both ways.

Ask the question this way.

Are Brittany McKnight and John Wilson more employable than Lukwesa Nakazwe and Hijani Lungo?

Yes and it is obviously about race. Why? On average, Africans immigrants are more highly educated than native born Caucasians.

It's not about education. It's not about statistics. It's about racism. There have been studies where researchers submitted resumes with identical education and employment backgrounds but substituted "white sounding" names for "black sounding" names and the ones with the "black sounding" names were half as likely to be contacted by prospective employers.

With the same education and the same work experience, "Je'Marcus Johnson" is half as likely to even be interviewed as "Mark Johnson".

Re: 6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White'

#165

Post by maxerickson » Wed, May 06, 2015, 4:56 PM UTC

laichzeit0 wrote: post #157

maxerickson wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The placeholder was chosen in the context of a relatively personal, informal group blog: http://thepoetryquestion.com/about/ If you think your sexist, racist, white male privileged, fat shaming thoughts are important to voice, I don't see why you would worry about them offending someone. The motions of political correctness can go too far, but the basic thought, to consider what words might mean to someone else, is a…

This type of hyped up placeholder is _exactly_ an example of political correctness gone too far. It's exaggeration. My argument is not even against purposefully using words that are offense. It's about how there are so many words that are deemed offensive today that I can't even keep track of what they are. For example, calling one of my own non-homosexual friends a "faggot" or "gay" is offensive. Even though I'm not…

It would be too far for NPR to be doing it, without understanding the audience of the blog, I think it is harder to say.

I don't think that not offending people is an ideal anyway, it is just usually (or maybe just often) the reasonable course of action.

Re: 6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White'

#166

Post by jrells » Wed, May 06, 2015, 4:59 PM UTC

beachstartup wrote: post #42

jrells wrote: post #10

As a white guy with a (very mildly) African American sounding name, I have had similar experiences. When I meet people in person after emailing them they sometimes seem surprised, and some later admit they expected me to be black. The worst example was when I was told by someone renting a room on craigslist that they couldn't rent to me because I was a "security threat", even though I had hardly said anything about m…

of course they can escape it. they just have to change their name. that's what my family did for me, and what i will do for my kids if i have kids. as far as i'm concerned if you have serious professional ambitions in the US, you're being foolish if you keep an 'ethnic' sounding name. keeping your disadvantageous name and arrogantly shaking your fist at the world to change to suit your political tastes is insane to m…

I only said it must be tough to face (non-mistaken) racism. I am curious how this is arrogantly shaking my fist, or is related to my political tastes. And I'm curious what you believe those tastes to be.

EDIT: In my own rereading, my original comment is strictly about the way people treat each other as individuals and could be consistent with any taste in politics from communism to anarchy.

Re: 6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White'

#167

Post by lotsofmangos » Wed, May 06, 2015, 5:03 PM UTC

revelation wrote: post #125

rayiner wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using name is a reasonable way to optimize figuring out someone's race. The question is: why are we trying to figure out someone's race? If you're talking about reducing effort, isn't the easiest thing to just not ponder the question of someone's race? People wouldn't bother to try and answer that question if they didn't care about what the answer was. Now, the fact that people care is not in and of itself evidence o…

Well, in the one example given, a waiter used the name to discern that the debit card would probably belong to a black person. That seems like a perfectly innocent use.

If a waiter isn't certain who owns a particular credit card, I do not think handing it out to someone they think matches the name, is all that sensible a course of action.

Especially when they are literally holding a card with the name of the person they are looking for on it.

There are fairly well established social methods for dealing with that conundrum and none of the good ones involve the waiter handing the card to the person they think is most likely.

Re: 6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White'

#168

Post by happyscrappy » Wed, May 06, 2015, 5:07 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #145

happyscrappy wrote: post #30

Silicon Valley is a ridiculous festering pool of hypocrisy. Instead of trying to train and hire underprivileged blacks from right next door, Oakland, they fly or outsource them from half way around the world in India. Yet they think they are liberal and caring because they upvote stories like this.

Why should highly privileged blacks be favored over underprivileged Indians? http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/31/the-haves-and-t... (Note: privileges the black Oaklandians were born with include the right to work in the US, a highly functional education system where teachers show up to work, 24/7 running water and power, etc.)

Charity should begin at home.

Re: 6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White'

#169

Post by jrells » Wed, May 06, 2015, 5:08 PM UTC

beachstartup wrote: post #158

foldr wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Changing your name might help, though it's sad that anyone should have to do this. I was replying because you (a) seemed to be missing the OP's point and (b) were coming close to blaming victims of racial discrimination for not changing their names.

it's sad? really? no, it's sad that ww2 happened. it's sad that there's still starving people in the world. it's sad that there's human trafficking in 2015. what's not sad is someone crying over the fact that some people are prejudiced against certain names when the easy solution is to just change your fuckin' name if you deem it to be a problem .

I deem my name to be a competitive advantage overall. I have never wanted to change it. I deem racism to be a problem, particularly because you can't just sign a paper and change your race.

Re: 6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White'

#170

Post by scrumper » Wed, May 06, 2015, 5:21 PM UTC

chengiz wrote: post #25

So the school wanted diversity so they called him for an interview, but they hired him even though he was white. Yeah I don't buy that.

He makes the point that the school did indeed 'get diversity' - his upbringing is quite far outside the mainstream. Diversity is not exclusively furthered by hiring people with dark skin.