Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nice strawman.
I wasn't attacking a position, it can't be a strawman. It was an analogy and an explanation of my position.
That's true, you incurred in a false equivalence fallacy.
Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn
161–170 of 374 posts
Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn
#162It's interesting to see that these people (1) installed the bust in such a way that it can be easily removed without damaging the existing structure and (2) went to great lengths to ensure that the new design is honoring the aesthetics that were already in place. One can argue otherwise, but I think this is a very creative and considerate form of protest which btw is also non-violent.
As I said in another response: it's a political statement made with public art. As far as Parks and Rec is concerned, it's big heavy piece of vandalism, the integrity of which they know nothing about.
To put this in a programmer's perspective: imagine if artists wanting to make political statements suddenly started littering your linux kernel with binary blobs which caused your boot screen to flash an image of Snowden. Let's pretend that this version of the kernel is hosted on an otherwise trusted package cache, and nobody is actually verifying checksums and so thousands of unsuspecting developers now have this tainted kernel. Funny? Innocuous? Ingenious? Perhaps, but I'd be amazed if you all didn't wipe your disks right then and there.
Edit: I don't mind downvotes (this is my most downvoted chain of comments so far). However if you do, please take some time to contribute to the discussion with a substantive argument. I fully support Snowden, these artists, and the Parks department here. My argument here is only an attempt to make better sense of what people seem to be ignoring for the sake of a political argument which many of us want to support.
Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn
#163I 3D scanned the place where the illicit Snowden bust was sitting just a few months ago :) https://sketchfab.com/models/20d2c70c4e164c7596e9393139ad0b7...
Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn
#164Very cool idea. It doesn't look too much like Snowden though.
Google image search agrees with you: http://bit.ly/1CdboIs
note: jack from "the shining" shows up
Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn
#165Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Shameful that something so harmless is immediately covered up (quite literally) because it challenges the state. Playing devil's advocate here, but would have they done differently with an other bust? maybe it's just forbidden to put a statue in a park without authorization.
Someone put up a naked devil statue in a Vancouver park. It was removed pretty briskly. http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/petitions-call-for-...
A naked devil grabbing his very erect penis. I can understand why some people may find that offensive but I personally wouldn't be any more offended by it than I was by the peeing "swordfight" statue at the Franz Kafka museum in Prague (with moving hips and penises no less) [1]
Art comes in all forms, including the goat f*cking variety [2] but that's another dimension of this argument that you aren't arguing against so I won't delve into it here.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5lzZP36xVE
[2] http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20130419-the-shock-of-the-o...
Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn
#166Earlier quoted context omitted.
"the entire list of CIA field agents and their covers around the world" Not released. Not even plausibly given to "Greenwald & Co." It's telling that you jump to a ridiculous supposed analogy of endangered CIA field agents when we're talking "operations" safely carried out in secure server farms, cubicles, and offices.
Not all NSA operations occur within server farms, cubicles, and offices. They have agents, they have listening posts, they have people with assets in dangerous countries. I have no idea if that information was in Snowden's massive data dump, but that's the point; no one does. He dumped a shitload of data and it's doubtful if even he knows everything that's in there.
I have no idea
Correct. You have no evidence or plausible argument for characterizing what's in the dump or for making your assertion that Snowden himself doesn't know what's in the dump. You only have ominous generalities to hint about.
Unlike other posters, I don't care whether you're a shill. There are many people around the world who will say what you say - and much worse things - without taking a dime. I submit that it's a mistake to think that the difference matters. You're still engaging in misinformation and siding with government agencies spying on the people instead of with the people. That's no better than shilling.
Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
>He disclosed evidence of wrongdoing and illegal activity by the NSA, making him a whistleblower. The only illegal things he disclosed was that some NSA agents/employees illegally used their tools to track ex-gfs and stuff. All the rest is completely legal. The country had a public debating about warrantless wiretaps and congress wrote laws about it. The NSA follows those laws. He released the information because he…
If the state wants it to be so, it will be legal. The holocaust was legal. Segregation was legal. Stop mentioning legality of the NSA spying; the government writes the laws for their own benefit, of course what they do is legal. Legality of government actions is utterly, brutally, critically, inhospitably irrelevant when compared to what is ethical. A dragnet isn't ethical. A police state isn't ethical. Furthermore,…
I agree morality and legality aren't the same thing. But we cannot have a personal morality exception to classified materials.
I'm sure many people who work for the Department of Defense think the Iranian Nuclear deal is wrong. Should they be able to leak a bunch of classified information to sour it? I'm sure they'd believe making peace with, in their minds, genocidal maniacs with nukes is completely immoral.
>Furthermore, there wasn't ever a public debate over whether people wanted the dragnet or not-- it was done in secret, then exposed, then legalized after it was exposed to the public, regardless of any public comment for or against it.
Were you born the day before Snowden leaked? We've been having §215 arguments since the day the Patriot Act passed. It's been debated in Congress every time the Patriot Act comes up for re-approval.
Congress has a large debate about FISA and warrent-less wiretaps every year from 2006-2008, with amendments to the FISA act ever time.
Congress is a manifestation of the will of the people on the United States. You might be pissed off about what they do on our behalf but we elect them.
You may think it was moral to leak, but that isn't germane.
Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn
#168Why is Edward Snowden a hero? He divulged sensitive U.S. documents and information that now bad actors use to exploit/harm the US. Further, he knew what he was doing was against the law and ran as far away as he could to avoid facing the consequences(Bradley, now Chelsea Manning as far as I know didnt run like a coward). Now he's a pawn between Russia and US relations. The information he divulged that we are being wa…
Pardon I witnessed the World Trade Center fall right in front of my eyes. I don't want to witness that again ... let me know your watching my every move and I'm fine with it! I don't want to witness the same type of tragedy again and I have nothing to hide. I am a law abiding citizen.
Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn
#169Re: Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn
#170Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Are you perhaps working for the US equivalent of 50 cent army? Didn't we just hear about a new HN policy to limit trolling, snotty comments, and low information negativity like this? This snide aside here is a good test case to see if these new policies have any teeth. I would expect this comment deleted by the mods. Accusing other members of being paid-for shills merely because they disagree with you is trolling an…
I agree that unfounded accusations are unhealthy for discussion, but the nature of the issue at hand involving a state-level power with nigh unlimited resources and the few citizens within the state body attempting to bring attention to this issue would suggest that suspicions of this sort aren't unfounded and aren't necessarily damaging to the discussion itself. Censoring discussion of this kind is probably the most…
I disagree entirely. Accusing someone of shilling doesn't contribute meaningfully unless it can be proved, and proved with damning evidence. Anything else is rhetorical bluster meant to distract and has no place in a discussion.