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Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum

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Re: Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum

#161

Post by slg »

john_b wrote: post #86
ianstallings wrote: post #15

Warning: this opinion probably won't fit into the HN zeitgeist. If you commit a crime online don't be surprised when they seek to gain evidence against you. This isn't a liberty issue. This is a you're probably a criminal issue and law enforcement is coming after you. I don't protect drug dealers in my neighborhood because of their right to free speech and personal liberty so why would I protect these guys? It just a…

> "They'll deflect, ignore, and basically try anything to escape the reality - they broke the rules of society and now society wants to punish them." I think most people, criminals or otherwise, understand this quite well. In fact, I'd guess that criminals understand it better than non-criminals. What some people don't seem to understand (or even want to think about) is that the law is often a pitiful and nationally…

>Gandhi, MLK, and the U.S. Founding Fathers were all criminals of their times. Sometimes the world needs people to break the law to show how broken the law really is.

Except those individuals fought the laws and the people behind them. They did not simply try to circumvent the unjust laws. It is tougher to take the moral high-ground when you aren't striving for change. These people are not battling some great injustice, they are breaking [perhaps unjust] laws for their own personal gain (either monetarily or recreationally).

Re: Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum

#162

Post by GFK_of_xmaspast »

DanBC wrote: post #125
GFK_of_xmaspast wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember usenet becoming basically unreadable from the spam and abuse (both commercial and otherwise, everybody's favorite nazi weev did a lot to kill usenet back in the day)

I don't remember weev from any Usenet groups I used. I do remember hipcrime sporges.

he was in the gnaa

Re: Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum

#163

Post by themgt »

FireBeyond wrote: post #157
nickysielicki wrote: post #3

We (speaking as a netizen) need Usenet 2.0; eg: something that can fulfill the role of reddit that is decentralized/distributed. Perhaps reddit can even transition into being a reader (a la google reader) for people that don't want to set up their own node. I'm not saying that drug discussion is the quintessential act that deserves to be protected, but I am worried that the government has such an easy avenue to get t…

"but I am worried that the government has such an easy avenue to get this information" This is a public forum. Hell, one of the users even VOLUNTEERED himself to be interviewed by the users of one of the most popular websites in the world under the topic of what amounts to "I run or help run a drug smuggling/selling marketplace". What reasonable expectation should this user have to privacy? You can't do all these thi…

Yes, and the parent was arguing that the internet should have communication systems whereby people can speak in public without the government being able to look at them for it.

Re: Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum

#164

Post by jqm »

rayiner wrote: post #124
pyre wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The general stance that "you broke the law, now you're a criminal" may be technically correct, but most people issuing such statements group "criminals" into a singular group and feel that the serial murderer and the child rapist are no different than the guy that forgot he had an orange in his car when crossing the border. "You've broken the rules of society, you are no better than a vagabond!" In light of this, how…

Drug opponents aren't just some religious nuts though. Aside from marijuana, the overwhelming majority of the population supports keeping drugs illegal. Support for legalizing things like cocaine is under 10%. And the homosexuality reference above is a red-herring. Nobody ever broke into someone's house in a state of diminished cognition because of gay sex.

Ya, well given the propaganda this is hardly surprising...

"Nobody ever broke into someone's house in a state of diminished cognition because of gay sex...."

I... wouldn't be too sure about that.

Re: Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum

#165

Post by FireBeyond »

paganel wrote: post #107

From NSWGreat's AMA linked in the article: > The Darknet is amazing, its changing the drug scene for the better. Its taking away the violence and the dangers that are inherit with buying drugs. Never thought about it this way, but as everyone is talking and writing endlessly about how taxi rides will be revolutionized by billion-dollar Silicon Valley start-ups I found this insight about the drug-market fascinating. O…

Citation needed. The cartels do plenty of killing regardless of the number of sellers on the street. Read books like El Narco, that document their intimidation of villages and towns into being involved in their grow and production operations.

This, to me, is much more "Hey, look at this, Drugs 2.0, no harm!" with little to no evidence to back it up.

Re: Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum

#166

Post by indrax »

slg wrote: post #161
john_b wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "They'll deflect, ignore, and basically try anything to escape the reality - they broke the rules of society and now society wants to punish them." I think most people, criminals or otherwise, understand this quite well. In fact, I'd guess that criminals understand it better than non-criminals. What some people don't seem to understand (or even want to think about) is that the law is often a pitiful and nationally…

>Gandhi, MLK, and the U.S. Founding Fathers were all criminals of their times. Sometimes the world needs people to break the law to show how broken the law really is. Except those individuals fought the laws and the people behind them. They did not simply try to circumvent the unjust laws. It is tougher to take the moral high-ground when you aren't striving for change. These people are not battling some great injusti…

Lots of slaves just escaped.

It's is not anyone's place to assign to the oppressed the duty of changing their oppressors' minds.

The Founding Fathers were just victorious. Being powerful enough to deter enforcement is not a reliable indicator of moral high ground.

Re: Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum

#167

Post by FireBeyond »

themgt wrote: post #163
FireBeyond wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"but I am worried that the government has such an easy avenue to get this information" This is a public forum. Hell, one of the users even VOLUNTEERED himself to be interviewed by the users of one of the most popular websites in the world under the topic of what amounts to "I run or help run a drug smuggling/selling marketplace". What reasonable expectation should this user have to privacy? You can't do all these thi…

Yes, and the parent was arguing that the internet should have communication systems whereby people can speak in public without the government being able to look at them for it.

Things aren't special "because ... Internet!". If something is done in public, it's done in public. If you'd face consequences for it on the street, why shouldn't you online? I can't see any particular level of logic than "we should be able to get away with shit online".

Note, for emphasis, that this is entirely an aside to the subject of legalization, as I'm actually much more pro-legalization than anything else.

Re: Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum

#168

Post by jmkni »

jjulius wrote: post #11

One would assume that the users of deep web-related subreddits would take just as many precautions to protect their privacy when using Reddit as they do when on the deep web. Just because you don't actually conduct illegal activity via Reddit doesn't mean that it's impossible for someone to connect the dots to your deep web forum account(s) with enough effort. If people turned out to truly be that foolish then I will…

Isn't that impossible though?

I'm not 100% on this but I thought that because Reddit isn't hosted on the 'deep web' (ie no .onion address) you lose a layer of protection visiting it even over Tor, compared to sites that are hosted on Tor. It's still safer, but it's not the same, right?

Anyway, it's inevitable that some people are better at anonymising themselves than others, so even if they all try to do so, there's going to be at least some users who do it badly and wind up being arrested.

It's also inevitable that 100% of people who are confident enough to buy drugs online think that they have done everything correctly.

Re: Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum

#169

Post by FireBeyond »

jstx wrote: post #153
karmacondon wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who break the law are criminals, period. It doesn't matter if the law is just or unjust, or whether or not you personally agree with it. The simple fact is that the majority of citizens don't want online drug dealing to be legal, so it isn't legal. Equating drug dealers with Ghandi, MLK and the US Founding Fathers is a stretch at the least and outright offensive at worst. These people aren't making bold politi…

"If you think that drugs should be legal, convince your fellow citizens to vote to make them legal." The burden of enlightening someone should never fall upon anyone but that someone. To argue that avoiding imprisonment isn't a burden would be the definition of sophism.

To claim that people who are actively hiding their identities, deny, destroy evidence, pass blame, abrogate responsibility - and make sometimes millions of dollars tax-free by doing so are just revolutionaries for the progression and advancement of our society is ... disingenuous at best.

Re: Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum

#170

Post by slg »

indrax wrote: post #166
slg wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Gandhi, MLK, and the U.S. Founding Fathers were all criminals of their times. Sometimes the world needs people to break the law to show how broken the law really is. Except those individuals fought the laws and the people behind them. They did not simply try to circumvent the unjust laws. It is tougher to take the moral high-ground when you aren't striving for change. These people are not battling some great injusti…

Lots of slaves just escaped. It's is not anyone's place to assign to the oppressed the duty of changing their oppressors' minds. The Founding Fathers were just victorious. Being powerful enough to deter enforcement is not a reliable indicator of moral high ground.

I'm not saying oppressed people have a responsibility to change things or that being powerful means you have moral weight behind you. I am saying that breaking an unjust law has no moral value. Gandhi, MLK, and the U.S. Founding Fathers have the moral high-ground because they fought for change. The guy buying pot over the internet is only serving himself. Grouping them all together just because they broke [potentially] unmoral laws is dismissing the motives and sacrifices of the former group.
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