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I code like a girl

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Re: I code like a girl

#161

Post by rmc »

amyjess wrote: post #131
facepalm wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well do you have an answer? To me it seems highly unlikely that all the women have been turned away by sexism. I remember the times when programming and computers where considered extremely unsexy and basically made you an outcast and unlikely to get a girl-friend. Computer kids back then would have been very happy to meet a girl who was interested in computer stuff.

The worst of the sexism comes from other girls. Nerdy boys largely get ignored by their non-nerdy peers. There's an attitude of "I don't know why anybody would like that, but whatever". On the other hand, nerdy girls are treated like absolute shit by other girls. Instead of "not my cup of tea", it's more like "eww, that's disgusting, and you're disgusting for liking it". The movie Mean Girls could have been a documen…

> The movie Mean Girls could have been a documentary.

Mean Girls was actually based on a book on helping your teenage daughter survive bullying in school ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Bees_and_Wannabes )...

Re: I code like a girl

#162

Post by mreiland »

erroneousfunk wrote: post #154
mreiland wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you should stop looking for gender inequality without direct evidence. Crazy thought I know.

The point was that I wasn't actually looking. So many of the articles on HN, and on tech blogs/news sites around the Internet are about gender inequality. As a human being, I can only encounter so much of it before it starts to affect how I view and interpret events around me, without realizing it. "Are they asking me to be a speaker at this conference because I'll provide valuable knowledge to the attendees, or is t…

I just watched you blame recruiter spam on your gender and you think the blame lies in all the talk online about gender inequality?

The blame lies squarely with you.

Re: I code like a girl

#163

Post by dang »

mreiland wrote: post #146
kazinator wrote: post #50

> What is now considered a male-dominated field, was once defined as “women’s work.” Once? It's naive to think that these attitudes do not persist, albeit in somewhat disguised forms, perhaps. At some universities, for instance, engineers regard CS majors as "wimps". Engineering is hard, CS is soft. Moreover, think about how there is an attitude that some "softer" or "easier" programming is lower on the pecking order…

What the fuck does that have to do with "woman's work"? I see a description of some fields being considered more difficult than others, I see no description about it being considered women's work. Instead I see you applying your own bullshit bias to it in order to attempt a point that absolutely is not there. tl;dr; shut the fuck up.

> your own bullshit bias

> shut the fuck up

This is not allowed on Hacker News. If you can't comment civilly, please don't comment here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html

Re: I code like a girl

#164

Post by [deleted] »

dang wrote: post #163
mreiland wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the fuck does that have to do with "woman's work"? I see a description of some fields being considered more difficult than others, I see no description about it being considered women's work. Instead I see you applying your own bullshit bias to it in order to attempt a point that absolutely is not there. tl;dr; shut the fuck up.

> your own bullshit bias > shut the fuck up This is not allowed on Hacker News. If you can't comment civilly, please don't comment here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html

[deleted]

Re: I code like a girl

#166

Post by BasDirks »

toothbrush wrote: post #105
BasDirks wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Dutch, "jongens" (boys) is very common, even for mixed age and gender. However, jongens taken literally means "young ones", so it's actually very general. Use of "mannen" (men) among a group of adult males is usually actually more ironic than the more general "jongens".

Native Dutch speaker here, and i beg to differ: i would be very surprised if someone said "Daar staat een groepje jongens" ( there's a group of jongens ) and meant a group of girls. "Jongens" is definitely masculine.

Please read carefully, as I stated "mixed group". How about "jongens, kom", to a group of boys and girls? It's common.

Re: I code like a girl

#168

Post by rmc »

ajuc wrote: post #122
_bfhp wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say the theories of biological ineptitude of women are not nonsense and then point to childhood socialization?

It's much easier to make a game about shooting objects, or manipulating objects than about social interactions. That's what most of games were about in 8bit and 16bit times, so boys were interested in them more than girls (because of natural inclination and social norms), so there's more boys than girsl in IT right now. This will change because there's more gaming girls now, and there are other reasons to have comput…

Really? What about all the adventure games? The MUDs? The text adventures?

Re: I code like a girl

#169

Post by toothbrush »

BasDirks wrote: post #166
toothbrush wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Native Dutch speaker here, and i beg to differ: i would be very surprised if someone said "Daar staat een groepje jongens" ( there's a group of jongens ) and meant a group of girls. "Jongens" is definitely masculine.

Please read carefully, as I stated "mixed group". How about "jongens, kom", to a group of boys and girls? It's common.

I probably worry about this a bit too much, but broadly speaking i try very hard to de-gender my language where possible. E.g., i avoid saying "hey guys" and using 3rd person pronouns other than "they" when referring to undetermined people (such as "the user" and "they" in a technical manual). Therefore, no, i would not find it natural to say "jongens" to a mixed group of people. I used to have a boss in a dev team who always started his emails "Heren, ..." (== gentlemen) which irritated me no end. Apart from the fact that it sounds like a toilet designation (another pet peeve: why, in 2015, do we still have binary gendered public toilets?!) i found it incredibly exclusive language.

But indeed, perhaps this is outlier behaviour and others pay less attention. I suppose it's a tic i have because i'm in such a masculine-dominated field -- i try not to make it worse by talking as if i expect everyone to have XY chromosomes.

Disclaimer: i have a penis.

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